Stark actually profitable... kinda

[DaveAusNor]

"injecting capital from an invite-only round of existing owners with strategic value to the firm"

Its existing owners, so likely just getting money for a new factory.
my 3 guesses:
- New US factory
- New model factory
- combination of both

 

[Erwin P]

I don't think they would be investing within the US in current "tidal" economical climate. Sure it would save them from the tarifs as implied now. But how about tarifs that might or might not be implied to foreign companies? Or some quick deal swiping the tarifs off the table completely... Hell we might even see a ban on EV's in the US

 

[DaveAusNor]

Good points. But its still the biggest market. So not unlikely that they'd sell only to the US from that factory. Would save on shipping and tariffs.

 

[Erwin P]

To a degree it would make sense and in a more calm climate i'm almost sure they would. But i would be very afraid to infest inside the US as is.

I'm not perse against protectionism and i get the reasons. But for the love of yourself just take some time think and come up with a grand plan and stick to it. All markets incluiding internal ones need stability.

You would also have to deal with double overhead costs, startup problems etc etc.
When the company i work at set up an US plant there was a huge culture shock and huge delays and extra costs.

 

[Beagle]

AFAIK they currently run 2 production lines (MX and EX) with enough room for more.

My guess is funding for new production lines in the actual Spain factory to make street bikes, for which potential sale numbers would be much higher than niche markets of MX, Enduro and SM.

No US factory in sight for obvious reasons of economic uncertainties plus electric street bikes will sell much better in Europe and Asia. They did mention recently that they would develop some street models for Europe, made in Spain, and some other (lighter/smaller/cheaper) street bikes for Asia, made in Asia. Not sure if this implies production with Royal Enfield or Stark building its own Asian factory (the former seems more likely to me).

Although every bike Stark build is currently hand-assembled at their 20,000 square metre factory near Barcelona – a facility capable of producing up to 150,000 motorcycles per year – some of these new machines will be produced elsewhere, local to their target market.
"If you look at the most popular models in Asia versus the most popular models in Europe, it’s different motorcycles,” the CEO said. “So, the models we produce to target Asia will also be produced there. For models targeting Europe, we are planning to produce them here.”

Stark Future promise petrol-beating electric road bike

 

[Beagle]

Good points. But its still the biggest market. So not unlikely that they'd sell only to the US from that factory. Would save on shipping and tariffs.

Surprisingly they've stated that the US was not their main market. I guess there is much more pushback against EVs in general (look at EV car sales between Europe and US) and maybe less constraints about noise than in more densely populated Europe.

 

[DaveAusNor]

Surprisingly they've stated that the US was not their main market.

I must have missed this. all the interviews around the time of the EX launch mentioned (for the MX as least) that the US was by far the biggest market.

 

[Erwin P]

It is as a single country. But since it's the size of Europe you have to compare it to Europe as a whole. And then it shrinks quite a bit.

 

[Beagle]

I must have missed this. all the interviews around the time of the EX launch mentioned (for the MX as least) that the US was by far the biggest market.

I was pretty sure it was in Stark files 001 but maybe it was somewhere else, maybe in another Wass interview from May 2025?

 

[Chaconne]

The key question for me is "what are they raising capital for"?

The Pack article on this raise says it's for working capital. However, Stark is profitable and growing revenue and margin, so they can cover working capital with debt at much lower cost than equity.

So this is most likely for new production capacity or new models.

Because a company is profitable with growing revenue does not necessarily mean new production capacity or new models for a startup. Often it is to stabilize current production and improve delivery, leverage better supply chains, and clarify service deliverables --at least in my experience.

The current start-up I work for is in a similar situation we are trying to take the company from a start-up to a mid-size business.

 

[Erwin P]

Or they are buying that big Titanium printer that can print frames and Anton is jerking of to

Can't blame him though. How cool is it to have Titanium frames and print them yourselves!

 

[Chaconne]

To a degree it would make sense and in a more calm climate i'm almost sure they would. But i would be very afraid to infest inside the US as is.

I'm not perse against protectionism and i get the reasons. But for the love of yourself just take some time think and come up with a grand plan and stick to it. All markets incluiding internal ones need stability.

You would also have to deal with double overhead costs, startup problems etc etc.
When the company i work at set up an US plant there was a huge culture shock and huge delays and extra costs.

I am totally against protectionism and there is no good reason at all. Especially for "protection" from products that we don't even fucking make like dirtbikes. Tariffs and the like are an idiot's game for tax collection here at least. The only thing it protects --in the US at least-- is jobs for politicians.

 

[Beagle]

Or they are buying that big Titanium printer that can print frames and Anton is jerking of to

Can't blame him though. How cool is it to have Titanium frames and print them yourselves!

They already have the FS721M with build envelope of 720 x 420 x 650 mm

FS721M-CAMS | Farsoon Technologies

Farsoon Technologies

www.farsoon-gl.com

Maybe they'll go for the FS811M with build size of 840 mm x 840 mm x 1700 mm (don't think they need that much Z but who knows?)

Farsoon and Stark Future Validate Titanium Series Production with KLINGA Project | Farsoon Technologies

Farsoon Technologies

www.farsoon-gl.com

 

[Erwin P]

I am totally against protectionism and there is no good reason at all. Especially for "protection" from products that we don't even fucking make like dirtbikes. Tariffs and the like are an idiot's game for tax collection here at least. The only thing it protects --in the US at least-- is jobs for politicians.

Protectionism can be good to keep your own people at work and thus the economy flowing. Tarifs are one of the tools that can work great. Tarifs are a very good precision tool to make something happen to a specific industry. However swinging it around like a machine shotgun does not often work out great.

Especially when protecting your market against something you don't make nor plan make...

 

[Chaconne]

Protectionism can be good to keep your own people at work and thus the economy flowing. Tarifs are one of the tools that can work great. Tarifs are a very good precision tool to make something happen to a specific industry. However swinging it around like a machine shotgun does not often work out great.

Especially when protecting your market against something you don't make nor plan make...

I don't believe that tariffs work that way and have not shown to do so at least in American practice. The Soviets tried the "keep your own people at work" and it turned into a miserable falling behind bureaucracy as well. Tariffs and protectionism enable politicians and bureaucrats to make choices about what people can buy instead of the market. That is one big reasons why the Soviets and Eastern Europe fell so far behind politicians suck there just like here. The market can be a hard place and cause displacement at times but it is much better at picking winners and losers than politicians and their vested interest donors.

Rarely do tariffs "make something happen" in capitalist states. It simply enables the upper echelon of corporations to charge more and profit take at the expense of the average consumer who gets charged the extra taxes often times to protect industries that are large political donors. Competition is the only thing that corporate states understand and pitting them against one another in competition in the market is the only thing that works to benefit the most people.

The corporate guys had no problem selling off huge swaths of American manufacturing in the 80s, 90s, and 2ks to China and taking huge profits from the lower costs and the increased volumes of native Chinese sales. No tariffs on anything. Then when the Chinese start making their own products and taking market share and becoming real competition suddenly the very same products are now a national security threat and subject to tariffs or government kickbacks (i.e. Nvidia) and all kind of protections. In the end more Americans will likely lose jobs with this kind of insanity than will gain and not one dirtbike will be made here I guarantee you that (not enough profit for American companies).

 

[Erwin P]

The Sovjet is a very extreme example, just like the current US example and the one at the beginning of the great depression (wich also was a katalyst to ww2 but lets not get distracted).
However tarifs happen all the time by everyone and are mostly done quietly with only a few percents on very specific products. If a supplier in country A has to charge 100 for a product to sell it at a sustainable margin. But a supplier from country B tries to undercut it with 98 and win the market at A... Then a 2 or 3% tarif keeps the business from A in business and thus saving jobs, bringing in extra tax money via incometax from local company A while B sells nothing.
This is oversimplified how they should be used and do work.

But i agree, protecting the internal dirtbike market in the US... Not the greatest idea.

 

[Theo]

Talking about tariffs, I don't have a confirmed opinion about them because I think that, just like many managerial and political decisions, implementing them has so many consequences that the discussion could go on forever.
Also, neither I am an expert in macroeconomics, nor I am a complete layperson, but I'm closer to the layperson.
That said, one thing doesn't convince me about tariffs: as far as I know, there is strong consensus about the fact that each country should specialize in supplying things in which they have the so called comparative advantage, since in this way, overall, the conditions of each pair of exchanging countries would improve. This is just a general rule and I doubt that it holds true always in every situation, but tariffs should hinder that kind of business.
The problem is also that there are so many causes and effects for political and economical events, that even if we could foresee the future or analyze different scenarios in parallel universes, it wouldn't be straightforward to associate causes and effects and judge decisions.
@Philip: this topic has been involved many times in this forum and after all it is, indeed, related to the success probability of EVs manufacturers. Would it be acceptable to create a thread about tariffs, of course provided people discuss respectfully without contempt for other countries? If so, in which subsection?

 

[Chaconne]

The Sovjet is a very extreme example, just like the current US example and the one at the beginning of the great depression (wich also was a katalyst to ww2 but lets not get distracted).
However tarifs happen all the time by everyone and are mostly done quietly with only a few percents on very specific products. If a supplier in country A has to charge 100 for a product to sell it at a sustainable margin. But a supplier from country B tries to undercut it with 98 and win the market at A... Then a 2 or 3% tarif keeps the business from A in business and thus saving jobs, bringing in extra tax money via incometax from local company A while B sells nothing.
This is oversimplified how they should be used and do work.

But i agree, protecting the internal dirtbike market in the US... Not the greatest idea.

There are probably some differences economic outlook between the US and Europe as well. Generally, we tend toward a laissez-faire system. And most Americans have a general distrust of government interference in economics. Although, given the current administration's ability to mask government intervention in snake oil and hidden taxes that era may be coming to a close. But we don't do socialism well here, we drift into bureaucratic corruption faster than you can say KTM...

 

[OpaTsupa]

Or they are buying that big Titanium printer that can print frames and Anton is jerking of to

Can't blame him though. How cool is it to have Titanium frames and print them yourselves!

Waiting for riding kit made of Titanium fabric.

Will pay any price asked.

I must add here that Titanium axes and sabers are beyond stupid and must have come from the 'dildo technology' department.

@Chaconne, stop spreading sense and reason or you will be put on some watch-list.