We can confirm that we won't see solid state on Stark for a long time hahaha
Stark Battery Tech Thread
- Thread starter Karinshi
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You and me both.
I would have at least expected to see a recap on their Instagram or maybe an article in a blog about electric vehicles.
edit: found a couple more comments interesting on their latest Instagram
So it's coming!
So... it may come... one day... like traction control... adjustable flywheel...
BTW, if you want some real news about solid state batteries, BYD plans its first batches for next year (limited production runs, pilot scale).
They did not give any energy density value.
Why is this vastly more significant than Donut scam I hear you say? Because BYD is the world leading electric car manufacturer, the second largest battery manufacturer, and they have an army of engineers and PhDs working full-time on SSB. Their research and development department alone employs about 100 000 people, thousands of which are dedicated to SSB.
So when BYD says first run 2027 and mass production 2030 it's a bit more serious than when a company of 50 people claims a breakthrough.
Industrialization will always start with the big players, for high-end cars, then it will trickle down to more common cars and eventually motorcycles.
electrek.co
They did not give any energy density value.
Why is this vastly more significant than Donut scam I hear you say? Because BYD is the world leading electric car manufacturer, the second largest battery manufacturer, and they have an army of engineers and PhDs working full-time on SSB. Their research and development department alone employs about 100 000 people, thousands of which are dedicated to SSB.
So when BYD says first run 2027 and mass production 2030 it's a bit more serious than when a company of 50 people claims a breakthrough.
Industrialization will always start with the big players, for high-end cars, then it will trickle down to more common cars and eventually motorcycles.
BYD hits a milestone with solid-state EV batteries due out as soon as 2027
The world’s leading EV maker is preparing to introduce new battery chemistries to stay a step ahead of the competition....
electrek.co
El Duderino
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I still "Donut" believe him
Surely worth to be mentioned. Let's see whether that same cell will turn out having the stated energy density, etcetera (I'm not saying it won't).
They've made this website as a source of third party validations.
For me, the density is the most credible claim; the 100,000 charge cycles is the least credible. But it's curious that they're being upfront, facing the criticism. If it were all completely fake and If they felt "caught out," i suppose they'd hide... but they don't... i dont even know anymore...
Chaconne
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If Donut has some street cred even if not entirely true, it might push the large industry to move more quickly. Fast delivery of new tech on the part of the big guys will tend to cannibalize their current investments --so rather than push new innovation it gets slowed somewhat. I have seen this more than once in US tech at least.
I think all claims are possible, what's hard to believe is that all claims could come from the same battery.
You can make batteries enormous energy density, or you can make batteries very resistant to heat and cold, or you can make batteries with really high retention and cyclability but these are typically 3 different batteries.
As I mentioned earlier, BYD employs 100 000 people in their research and development department, I think they'd be over the moon to be the first to mass produce a solid state battery, the competition is crazy intense. The stakes are really high and it would get them such a boost in sales that it would be worth it.
At the same time they're really at the top of the game with LFP (lithium iron phosphate) and pushing hard for sodium batteries getting ever closer to LFP energy density (but much better cyclability, super fast charge, temperature resistance and so on... and obviously no lithium).
They've already stated that when SSB will become a reality, they will keep their other lines for different applications for a number of years. SSB mass production will not mean the extinction of all other systems at once. It will take time to scale up, to get competitive with cost, and it might not be the ideal battery for all use cases.
Chaconne
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Yes that is what I am expecting them to say. But if Donut gets something to market fairly close with most of the bases covered BYD won't be able to wait. The demand for LFP and Sodium will likely collapse and all that investment would be impacted. As would current sales.
If SSB is truly on the horizon many buyers will wait before making a purchase and that will impact current markets a lot I think. Range, safety, and durability have hurt the EV market in the US dramatically and SSB may address that. The Donut guys have hit many of the marks that appeals to the US market and if they are not a fraud they will at least be a disruption.
BYD sells no cars in the US btw and that means none. Many Americans would love to shop BYD's current efforts but our government does not allow that since its biggest donors pay for protection.
I took BYD as an example, you guys got Toyotas? 
Verge has been around for 7 years, they've only ever sold about 100 motorcycles... they're very unlikely to crack this and even more so to mass produce SSB (or, well, anything really). To be fair they're planning to massively ramp up production for 2026... could even be over 1 motorcycle per day if they get enough buzz going on, color me impressed
As an aside, "verge" is an interesting name for the french market.
Verge has been around for 7 years, they've only ever sold about 100 motorcycles... they're very unlikely to crack this and even more so to mass produce SSB (or, well, anything really). To be fair they're planning to massively ramp up production for 2026... could even be over 1 motorcycle per day if they get enough buzz going on, color me impressed
As an aside, "verge" is an interesting name for the french market.
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Concept breakthroughs are often done by geniouses of small companies. Apart from the whole donut thing i wouldn't be surprised if a small company beat the big ones to it.
But if they have the tech and have it working...? This is the time to sell it and live on some dream beach for the rest of their lives.
But if they have the tech and have it working...? This is the time to sell it and live on some dream beach for the rest of their lives.
Matt
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Donuts recently third party testing results is damning. The voltage profile indicates it’s not a super capacitor or traditional battery chemistries. The energy density just visually looking at the cell and the capacity indicates their claims may not be unrealistic. Seeing that knocked my socks off. I am sure someone can get an idea of the chemistry they are using based on the full charge voltage just based on over-voltages for narrowing anode/cathode combinations. Charging unconstrained at 90C is insane. The one thing I still don’t understand is why they are doing it this way. If it’s real why wouldn’t they just do a huge out of public deal with a major company. If it’s real surely china will be able to figure out how to make it. I don’t understand their business plan. This will fundamentally change the world if it’s real.
markhamr
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I am not knocking it .
But even from here I can see a hole in the plan.
Cell technology is ongoing unfortunately without
even more breakthroughs (major ones) I doubt
dirt bikes will really become the norm before 2050
and I will be too old to ride one then.
But even from here I can see a hole in the plan.
Cell technology is ongoing unfortunately without
even more breakthroughs (major ones) I doubt
dirt bikes will really become the norm before 2050
and I will be too old to ride one then.
Funny, I agree with you it makes no sense, I think they might be doing the opposite of that: paying to put their name on someone else's tech and expecting to gain major financial backing from it.
This is turning out to be quite the adventure, will it end up as a miracle or a debacle?