STARK VARG (Something new is coming!)

[B. FRANK]

someday batteries will be like propane tanks for bbq grills...drop off the old, ride off with a new. I can swap a surrons battery in less than a minute. it will happen, there just aren't enough bikes to standardize batteries...YET!!

 

[Redwolf]

I will believe car or motorcycle mfgs will agree on a single battery standard just like the power tool makers have.

But it's nice to dream about the possibility.

 

[blbills]

~5000 sold! Plus a bunch more goodies in this pulp MX interview of the CEO:

 

[UKLee]

Anton wass clearly said I will come on your show as long as you do not ask any awkward questions, I just want a load of good PR out of this. Just like the guy doing the interview the media try out will be very one sided, they always are because otherwise they will not be invited back.

Clearly the biggest issue with this bike is the battery swap.....no mention of it.
All this talk about racing it with gas bikes, no mention of safety, all other electric or hybrid race vehicles have all sorts of flashing lights etc to say it is safe or unsafe to touch and marshalls trained to deal with it.
What if the battery case smashes open in a crash, how do you deal with that, what if another rider lands on this smashed open battery in a first corner pile up?

Could this end up electric bikes only races with all riders mx gear replaced with thick rubber suits!

Don't get me wrong I am all for electric bikes we have some and I have a deposit on one of these but there is a lot of questions that need to be answered before I pay out anything more than the small deposit.

All well and good seeing one video after another of pro riders on well designed tracks which is actully quite easy on the bike landing on a down slope, I want to see what happens to the bike/battery case when a rider gets it all wrong and "cases" it very hard.

 

[Philip]

It's a very tough crowd here on our forum. Everyone is grudgingly anxious to switch brands, LOL!

 

[Number Six]

My only interest is in the machines performance ; chassis geometry, suspension, power modulation & weight are the things I care about.

 

[Smerwin43]

Clearly the biggest issue with this bike is the battery swap.....no mention of it.

One of the lead engineers has talked about it many times in this very thread.

 

[UKLee]

One of the lead engineers has talked about it many times in this very thread.

He might have talked about but not given a definite answer to if the production bike will have design changes to make a battery swap more practical, as it is the frame will fold up which will also distort the sub frame. Yes I can see a way of supporting the frame whilst swapping the battery but that needs to be on a solid flat floor not out in the field.

When you get 2 replys from stark about swapping the battery the first saying "The Stark VARG is not designed to swap batteries." the second saying "You can swap it making some changes in the plastics, in less than 30 seconds. but the bike is not designed for that from the factory."
Then the Lead engineer on here saying something different again I am not filled with confidence.

 

[Smerwin43]

He might have talked about but not given a definite answer to if the production bike will have design changes to make a battery swap more practical, as it is the frame will fold up which will also distort the sub frame. Yes I can see a way of supporting the frame whilst swapping the battery but that needs to be on a solid flat floor not out in the field.

When you get 2 replys from stark about swapping the battery the first saying "The Stark VARG is not designed to swap batteries." the second saying "You can swap it making some changes in the plastics, in less than 30 seconds. but the bike is not designed for that from the factory."
Then the Lead engineer on here saying something different again I am not filled with confidence.

"For the procedure be patient -- there are some differences between the prototypes and the preproduction bikes. That is likely why they are hesitant to give you an answer; they want to verify how long it takes on the preproduction bikes. It should be better than on the prototypes.

So, was it designed to be quick swapped? No - that was made abundantly clear.
However, if you want to swap anyways, you can make a tool (simple jig) to make that easier."

Copy and pasted directly from fsfs.

I don't want to put words in his mouth but I feel very strongly that he is saying it will be slightly easier to swap in the first sentence, especially given the other context of what he has said about simplifying for production. Looking at the bike from the outside I feel I already know how the swap is going to be and it really seems like no big issue.

When he states it wasn't designed to be quick swapped it definitely does not mean that it can't be, and considering he said that you COULD use or make a simple jig in order to make it EASIER when he himself has done it without one (Regular tools and an adjustable stand). Be honest too, removing a few plastics and maybe a seat to get at it really isn't a big issue.

The bike was designed to be as comfortable to ride as possible as far as I can see so battery swap takes a step back but the fact that it wasn't designed specifically with that in mind does not mean it is impossible. 5 MINUTES he referenced you could get the time down too, that may be with 2 sets of hands and a jig like he was saying but nonetheless I am very optimistic.

Sorry if I'm being too much of a fanboy but honestly just look at the bike on the stand and reverse engineer the process in your mind. I feel like I'm starting to sound a bit rude, so apologies for that and I'm hoping for a bright future for EMX!

 

[B. FRANK]

I believe that it could possibly be what you believe you have read or maybe not, however what you believe may only be what you are led to believe and not at all what you have actually surmised. furthermore the thing that worries you the most may be of no consequence at all or it could be the most important issue yet, however having never actually seen or ridden the bike I feel that that makes me just as much of an expert as anyone else and therefor can definitely state for sure that what ever you may believe at this point is what you will believe until proven right or wrong. so in summation I have definitively stated nothing at all and will resign myself to wait for an actual unbiased owners review before allowing my hard earned opinions to be swayed. ps.i hope this bike is awesome and the first of many way cool electric bikes to come...trials, mx, trail, dual sport, street, super moto, flat track, hillclimb, speedway, road racing and even touring. whatever this turns out to be it is another giant step in the right direction. lets settle in for an other 10 months of guessing and hoping while critiquing and defending without any real facts to support our claims. sorry but nobody said no trolls allowed!!!

 

[Matt]

Battery swapping really isn't a true solution to the issue of range. Average users won't have the extra cash to buy a second battery and serious users with cash will just buy a second bike. Swapping is a sub optimal solution even if it just slid out in 5 seconds. It is only a solution at all now because the technology is still in it's infancy. I think for nearly all of the market that Varg will be selling to swappable batteries is of little use and I would guess most buyers will have it very low on their priority list.

 

[VINSANITY]

I understand your logic however Stark is stating they want to compete at all levels of racing - in my opinion the option to swap the battery needs to be built into the design - think about the erzberg race Alta did and they had to swap the battery.

When electric bikes get into the hands of top level riders they are going to drain batteries like crazy so it seems having the option to swap a battery should be part of the design.

 

[Matt]

I understand your logic however Stark is stating they want to compete at all levels of racing - in my opinion the option to swap the battery needs to be built into the design - think about the erzberg race Alta did and they had to swap the battery.

When electric bikes get into the hands of top level riders they are going to drain batteries like crazy so it seems having the option to swap a battery should be part of the design.

I think there is no efficient way with current battery tech to compete in hairscamble or gncc races. Again battery swapping is a potential solution but in reality it's not one many people will use particularly at cost. For a gncc you would need 4 to 5 times the capacity of the current batteries with a pro level rider. Pro teams and riders can modify the bikes to allow for quick swapping because they have the money to do that. Otherwise there is little demand for it with most end users. I think if you are looking at the market from a macro level, nailing performance is what is going to sell with a vast majority of potential buyers and if creating a hot swappable battery means they sacrifice some performance (based on current designs) then I would imagine it isn't worth it for them. Electric bikes will not be able to competitively compete in long distance off road racing at a pro level for some time. Motocross and supercross are short enough it may be possible and that's the demographic they are targeting. Even if they come out with an off-road model there is no feasible way to be truly competitive in hairscambles at a pro level (at least for now) even if there was a super fast swapping technique. Stopping 4 or 5 times to swap batteries even if at a rapid rate is enough to make it not competitive at a pro level when fast riders are closely competing .

The only way I see it being possible right now would be to use a hydrogen fuel cell which would allow for the capacity of energy needed to get through a race or at least only have one stop for "gas". But major issues with this would be figuring out how to handle the heat from a high performance fuel cell and the intake of clean air which would need to be much cleaner than standard combustion engines.

 

[Number Six]

To be fair, Stark has expressed interest in competing in MX & SX, don't recall hearing about the longer distance events as a focus of their competitive efforts.
Those are 30min+ at their longest & it could very well be ( as stated ) that their current configuration allows for that even at the pro level.
One things for sure - as soon as units get in the hands of magazine / online media types, the 1st thing they'll do is ride the thing till the battery expires.

Till then, we can continue to experience the fun-for-the-whole-family good times that manifest in a continuing loop of speculation, hand wringing & endless exercises of point-counterpoint.
.

 

[blbills]

If you have 3 hours here's a fresh interview of Anton:

 

[SHSMITH76]

If you have 3 hours here's a fresh interview of Anton:

Good listen, I am about 3/4 through..sounds to me like they will be late on delivery dates

 

[Gunter Schmutz]

Enough said

 

[73Thing]

Is there a weight difference in the 60hp and 80hp model?

 

[blbills]

Is there a weight difference in the 60hp and 80hp model?

Nope. Same hardware. Just a different software load.

 

[C5tor]

Just different stickers. We all know stickers add at least 20hp. Some fonts are faster than others, with san serifs offering the most weight savings. I once added 100hp to a 1976 Pinto by swapping out some Mustang II stickers.