Stock varg suspension revalve?! Enduro & Trail riding

[MPFuini]

I would use a 12 clamp shim and adjust the stock mid for best results

Might be a silly question, but can you explain what you mean?

 

[Upinsmoke57]

I was too lazy to dive into the midvalve. But I think you're right. At a certain point it's unbalanced. I'm not pretending to be a pro. Just sharing what i did and it made a totally different bike I also think for riding hard enduro vs mx it's less critical to get all aspects dialed in. We mainly want as soft as possible without bottoming out. And there is still 3" of fork travel left. That's why I am going to try softer springs next. Then maybe I'll dive into the midvalve.

 

[MPFuini]

I was too lazy to dive into the midvalve. But I think you're right. At a certain point it's unbalanced. I'm not pretending to be a pro. Just sharing what i did and it made a totally different bike I also think for riding hard enduro vs mx it's less critical to get all aspects dialed in. We mainly want as soft as possible without bottoming out. And there is still 3" of fork travel left. That's why I am going to try softer springs next. Then maybe I'll dive into the midvalve.

If you did break into the mid-valve, what were you thinking about doing?

 

[Upinsmoke57]

I wouldn't have the slightest idea where to start. I was fortunate enough to have a few friends that spent years tuning their YZ's for hard enduro. They both said you really don't need to mess with the mid valve for our needs. So I didn't The base valve (upper valve assembly, used to be at base on older open cartridge forks) is really only adjusting what happens to the displaced fluid from the shaft as it goes up into the cartridge (I think). The mid valve is the real meat and potatoes of what is more actively adjusting flow. I'm just starting to scratch the surface on all of this and I don't do it enough to even remember what I did last without looking at notes. This is why suspension guys won't just tell you what they do as it's not hard to do the actual work but more a life time of trial and error. It's more of a black magic than science. So either take your stuff to a specialist or dedicate many many years to dialing one thing in. I am not the right guy to learn from. I just shared what i did as it did work really well. But I was totally blind going into this.

 

[MPFuini]

Totally understand! I think I'm going to replicate your set-up until JBI releases their DIY kits later this year.

 

[Upinsmoke57]

I am very happy with it. I weigh 190-195 or so with all my gear. I ride slower technical stuff and ideally it would be just a tad softer in front. But it's light-years better than stock. Feel free to PM me if you run into trouble.

 

[MPFuini]

This is basically what I did. There are 20 face shims. From my understanding all the bikes have the same shim stack, it is just the springs and clicker settings that change between the soft/medium/hard options. I brought it down to 8 followed by a crossover made from the last small washer before the LSV starts. There are 3 of the same shims and I used one of those. Followed by 2 face shims and then just add the stock order. You're just making sure there is enough thread to torque the nut without hitting the shoulder of the shaft. That 6mm aluminum piece is very fragile. Red loctite and be careful. I think its 25 INCH pounds. I went from the stock 4.8 to 4.4 springs. Check eBay for your springs as they are way cheaper with free shipping than from Racetech. This is all on the base valve, nothing done to the mid valve.

When filing the peen down you want to retain the center peen, only file outside! The picture shows a toothpick (foam ear plug works even better) in the center and glove/tape wrapped around the rest of it to keep shavings from getting anywhere.

Loosen all the caps while they're in your triple clamps(loosen top clamp first obviously). The cheaper tusk tool will work but the nicer aluminum motion pro will not as its too thick to clear the bars. In which case you'll need to rely on a vice. I didnt have a hard time breaking the caps at all, some do.

There are a thousand videos on how to change seals on KYB SSS. Watch these for the general procedure for assembly/disassembly.

When it's all ready to reassemble I think it was 215ml in the cartridge and the rest bleeds out. For outer chamber I went with 310ml from the stock 350-355. Make sure cartridge is bled properly. Lots of videos on this as well.

For the rear shock I kept my spring and did something very similar where I used the last shim in the stack as a crossover and removed 3 face shims from the compression side and added 2 after the cross over. I left the rebound as is.

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Quick question - the image named "shim stack side view" is the correct configuration you used, right? In the image named "base revalve", you draw arrows showing them being placed after the large silver washer and last 6 shims. The two images don't agree.

Just wanted to confirm before I reassemble everything. Thank you!

 

[Upinsmoke57]

I'm not sure what image I named that but if it's the one with the text overlaid then yes that's what I currently have in my bike. I did technically remove 1 more face shim bringing it to 7. But I think 8 is good. You don't want to go too far and might be better trying different springs first. Sprung weight comes first. The extra face shims are placed on the other side of the stack just so the stock overall height remains so you know you are clamping the right height. Though I was under the impression as long as you have thread left you're fine. Either way it doesnt get in the way from asking a few guys who do this. You could also order thinner shims if this bothers your OCD. The other image I posted is the stock configuration. That one has 20 shims stacked in one block. I was just trying to show the difference between that and what I did.

EDIT: It was brought to my attention that my flow chart on the labelled picture showing how/where I relocated the shims was misleading. I am waiting for an answer from the admins on how to change a picture.

 

[markhamr]

The bike comes with full mx pro settings go hard or go home
after fully breaking in the suspension
I went to philips origanal settings( pretty fk off though}
I thought it felt a bit enduro so
go look there you would not go wrong

Zeta KYB Twin Chamber LT Free Piston Kit at MXstore

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this will help cheap easy install
i think the bike neds a more progressive spring
is hard then the middle stroke pushes threw
to be honest the bikes way too heavy

 

[markhamr]

just run philips original settings in clickers
this might help
adjttps://www.mxstore.com.au/p/Zeta-KYB-Twin-Chamber-LT-Free-Piston-Kit/ZE56-40012

 

[LTJ]

I had my suspension done by Weston from Rocco Racing in Santa Cruz. He's been great to work with. Below is my experience:

Just got the second ride on the Varg after the Rocco Racing re-valve. It’s flippen awesome! I don’t think I ever ridden Hollister that fast with control.

I asked Weston to re-valve for trail riding but I still wanted holdup over whoops. He turned it around in less than two weeks. He also went out of his way to check in to see how I liked the re-valve and offered to revalve it again if I wasn’t happy with it.

Last Sunday was my first ride on it with the re-valve. It was a step in the right direction, but it was still a bit chattery on down hill breaking bumps, but I liked it. I talked to Weston about it and he was concerned that removing the shim stack more might make it wallow too much. I told him both my 300 and 500 has BRP rubber mounted handlebar mounts and maybe that was the big difference I was feeling between the Varg and my KTM’s. So after that conversation (which he offered to re-valve again for free), I ordered flexx bars.

I decided to take last Thursday off from work and ride with some retired friends. I didn’t get a chance to install the flexx bars, so I backed off the clickers a bit, and soften up the low speed compression to help with the slap down feeling I was feeling after jumping to flat. But honestly I think the suspension wasn’t fully broken it yet because it just got better and better throughout the day. Now it feels flippen awesome. I’m kinda thinking I don’t need the flexx bars now, but I’ll put them on anyhow for when HH gets really jacked out. It’s pretty good right now.

We rode about 42-45 miles. I charged the SV while we were taking a snack break. I get really good range on the Adobe and Renz trails. At the last ride of the day we did some hill climbs and rode the granite side. Not suprising it used battery more on those faster and steeper trails.

Really enjoying the bike.

BTW, Weston is super reasonable.

Rocco Racing

Dirt bike service shop & home of the Throttle Bong! Located in Santa Cruz , CA. Motors, suspension, and more!

roccoracing.com

 

[markhamr]

I still think most of the suspension problems are caused by the weight of the bike
and the chassis (compromise)
a more progressive spring needed.
tapered spring maybe
When set soft it goes through the mid stroke too easily
which upsets the bike or at least is slow to transition or steer

Zeta KYB Twin Chamber LT Free Piston Kit at MXstore

Buy your Zeta KYB Twin Chamber LT Free Piston Kit online at MXstore. Australian owned, amazing service & fast free shipping* on over 100,000 products.

www.mxstore.com.au

I found these helpfull
Play with the oil weights and height maybe

 

[LTJ]

It’s an MX bike, so the suspension is too stiff for my use. I rarely jump anything bigger than a water bar. I backed off the clickers most of the way and it was better. It needed a revalve to handle trail chop. Now it’s way better and I have more range in the clickers to play with.

Spring rates are chosen to match rider weights. The correct spring rate is chosen so roughly 1/3 of the travel is taken up by the weight of the rider and bike together. Fine tuning that sag is done with pre-load adjustment.

Damping is for dynamic response. It is speed sensitive to the square of fluid velocity. It is adjustable through orifice size (clickers) and viscosity (oil weight).

Oil hight can affect suspension because the air above the oil acts like an air spring in series with the metal spring. It behaves slightly differently because it does not have a linear rate like a metal spring. Its spring rate is a power function of “1/x”, where x (travel) goes to 0, the rate goes to infinity. You can play with this to make your suspension feel softer or prevent bottoming.

For a trail bike, the weight can be an advantage. It has better unsprung (wheels, brakes, tires) to sprung (chassis, motor, battery) weight ratio. Think of this like a heavy car. I heavier car will ride smoother than a light car. So heavier bikes can ride more plush on trail chop. It can be more stable over the rough trails because it has more inertia. The disadvantage to a heavy bike is that if you bottom out, the bike can get away from you because you have more mass to control. Heavy bikes are harder to stop and obviously heavier to pick up.

I switched bikes with my buddy that has a KTM 150 SX. It’s light, but horrible on the trail. It was super harsh and unstable on the trail.

 

[markhamr]

electric bikes are awesome at most things
the ktm150 would be a ideal bike for me
I am trying to get around full outdoor mx tracks
with jumps that are sky high
and whoops so deep and varied i think bubba and chad designed them to crash everyone
Has anyone got any tips of how to best get through over them
I am having trouble not skying the wheel over jumps
and carrying the wheel in the whoops only to end up burying the front before i get through them
I probably just need to practise more to be honest
but any advice would be good

 

[RobA321]

Bike has to be balanced for it to jump evenly and to skim whoops. Correct springs and sag is the starting point for all good setups then adjust clickers/oil height then valving for style and terrain.