Talaria Komodo

[Theo]

Just found out about this!
link to Talaria's site with specifications
Available as MX or L3E for enduro
Wow, I would define it as a full size bike, maybe just a little smaller, like 9.5:10.
The main features:
- peak power: 32 kw
- battery capacity: 4.4 kwh
- weight: 98 kg
- 10% → 80% SOC in 1 hour
- 21 X 1.6" front, 18 X 2.15" rear, i. e. full size wheels (width dimension from the Italian site)
- dual chamber fork, having stenchions diameter 43 mm
- rear shock with nitrogen and linkages
- dual Hall sensor throttle
- street legal in Italy for 8.5 k €, to be reduced with incentives; they say in the comments of their official video that they have some trouble with tariffs for the US but they should eventually sell it there, too.
Here is an unboxing where they show it pretty well:

 

[MotoxXxMan]

I'm super excited for this to hopefully arrive in the US. I'm currently building an electric conversion kx250f, but if I ever buy a complete bike, this is the one I want for sure.

 

[AEsco48]

 

[HadesOmega]

Haha I keep thinking its Kodomo which means child in Japanese. I think they should have stuck with Dragon.

I believe it is meant to compete with the Ultra Bee so something like a 230cc sized dirtbike.

Endurocross

 

[MotoxXxMan]

Haha I keep thinking its Kodomo which means child in Japanese. I think they should have stuck with Dragon.

I believe it is meant to compete with the Ultra Bee so something like a 230cc sized dirtbike.

They're starting to classify e-bikes now into 3 size groups; light mid and full.
Light being the MTB style, with the light bee as the general comparison.
Mid being bikes such as the ultra bee, dust moto hightail, and really anything that falls roughly halfway between the size of a light bee and a full size 250/450 4stroke motocross bike.
Full obviously being the same size as 250-450cc 4stroke motocross bikes. So bikes like the storm bee and stark varg.

And yes, the Komodo is considered to be in the mid class. I want one.

 

[Theo]

I'll write some things that I already wrote about another non full size bike from a non established brand, I think it was the Dust:
• one point to consider is the serviceability of the bike:
- those suspensions, according to the italian site, are branded TL, which, I think, means Talaria,
- I see Talaria written on the front caliper, too,
so, if the owner needs, for example, some new bushings for the fork, will they be available? Will the user know which oil is supposed to be used in it? Will there be manuals or tutorials to service the fork? Will at least a suspensionist know those suspensions?
• Another point is that, it may not be a full size bike but it should be rideable in the proper way. One problem I've experienced riding smaller bikes is that the seat could be so low that when you squeeze the bike between your legs the knees are over the seat and so at that point you can only control it wih your ankles and calves. From some videos I've watched, it seems like the Komodo doesn't have this problem, however, especially if the potential buyer is tall, I think that a test should be adviseable.
• They offer an MX model, but will it really resist the mechanical stress of motocross?

 

[MotoxXxMan]

...
• They offer an MX model, but will it really resist the mechanical stress of motocross?

Something I've noticed with all the ebikes out now: MX versions definitely do not mean they can handle an actual motocross race or track. All the MX label indicates is "MX style": that it has a front wheel that is 2"-3" larger than the rear wheel, and often shorter gearing for more torque to the wheel. Compared to the non-MX versions that have equal size wheels or only 1" difference, and taller gearing for higher speeds.

 

[HadesOmega]

Heh well I'll tell you this I raced my Light Bee at a full size MX track during the EMX world championship and I broke it. The Ultra Bee is better for Full size MX tracks and the Varg is definitely better for the full size stuff. The small emotos really only should be raced at mini motocross tracks.

 

[Theo]

Here is a motocross test:

@Kurlon: Ultra Bee alternative for your use?

 

[Kurlon]

Seeing it getting VERY flexy on a landing didn't inspire confidence, nor did it throwing chains from swingarm flex?

 

[Theo]

Seeing it getting VERY flexy on a landing didn't inspire confidence, nor did it throwing chains from swingarm flex?

Yes, that sounds like the biggest problem. They said the chain derailed only once but they tested it for a short time, too. They said that the suspenions are a huge problem and you can see that slow-mo where both the fork and the rear shock bottom out. Maybe if the shock were tuned stiffer, then the swingarm wouldn't flex so much. Just a supposition, though, maybe that wouldn't fix the problem either.
So for those times when you do MX you would have limitations with this. Maybe still a better alternative and an acceptable compromise, that's up to you.

 

[VINSANITY]

I really wanted one of these but seeing some of the issues pretty happy I went with a conversion, modern motocross bikes are almost indestructible.

 

[Erwin P]

Modern MX bikes are beefy for a reason. If a new manufacturer thinks they can get away with leaner (swingarm, frame, suspension etc) they are just wrong.

 

[Chaconne]

Modern MX bikes are beefy for a reason. If a new manufacturer thinks they can get away with leaner (swingarm, frame, suspension etc) they are just wrong.

Agreed. I think they use the lightweight less expensive stuff to keep the prices lower while keeping the margins high. At least in North America the appetite for US 10k+ dirtbikes is extremely limited especially among younger riders.

I am not sure about some of these models but I have seen these bikes in the US at 5k and below price points. This is probably the top of the range for most parents and teens & 20s to purchase. It is also why in North America the buyers of Starks are the over 40 crowd for the most part (it is not just Stark either the MC market is aging out across the board).

 

[VINSANITY]

Totally agree, Sur Ron, Talaria are going after the biggest target audience and building good products that younger people can afford. It’s great because these companies are pushing the technology forward and creating a whole new market.

I am hoping someone comes out with a $7,500 full size bike, steel frame (not that forged stuff), 250 pounds, 40 KW, 40 mile real word range, swappable battery. They are getting closer, I think soon this will be common.

 

[Erwin P]

I was a bit negative, let me rephrase that:
Every manufacturer that thinks that can get away with less for an MX bike is wrong.

Playbikes sure have a place of their own wich they fullfill wonderfully, but should be thought of as playbikes, not MX bikes.

 

[Chaconne]

I was a bit negative, let me rephrase that:
Every manufacturer that thinks that can get away with less for an MX bike is wrong.

Playbikes sure have a place of their own wich they fullfill wonderfully, but should be thought of as playbikes, not MX bikes.

I think you are right but I don't think they are trying to get away for less it is intentional. One thing to consider is the American market. We don't really have a motorcycle culture like Europe and much of the rest of the world. Motorcycles here are almost entirely recreational vehicles (even road bikes). So engaging in different demographics with options is important.

There are only so many over 40s willing to shell out over 10k for a 2-wheel RV here. And this is clear in other motorcycle space as Harley and the Japanese manufacturers are dying in the US since there is no utilitarian need --it is simply discretionary spending. Appealing to younger riders with affordability and the usability of E is the only option.

BTW smaller displacement gas bikes are hated in most urban & suburban areas in the US. Even other RV riders (like ATV & SxSs) try to get them banned. Nice quiet clean E keeps the nosey Nancys off the phone with the local police and helps the next gen learn to ride.

 

[Theo]

Agreed. I think they use the lightweight less expensive stuff to keep the prices lower while keeping the margins high.

I'm not so sure about that and I don't understand why they make those bikes sturdier.
We have two problems:
• strength:
I think that strength is given mainly by the tensile strength and by a low enough density that allows the manufacturer to use more volume of metal keeping the weight within acceptable limits. On Stark's site they write that the Varg swingarm is made up of cast aluminum, that it weighs 4 kg and that it costs 500 € as a spare part. Since they start from a casting, the amount of swarf is probably little, so I'd say that probably it doesn't take more than 6 kg to get one swingarm. At current prices, 6061-T6 aluminum alloy bought in large quantities can cost 4 €/kg, so in other words probably less than 1/10th of what Stark spends to make one is spent to buy the raw metal.
• stiffness:
if the chain of a Kmodo derails because of swingarm flex, I think it means that the deflection must be macroscopic. In these two videos that you may enjoy:

it is explained how you don't need fancy metals to achieve strength but rather the right geometry; it makes sense to me and it's something we can notice in everyday life, too, even when we find a new body position to lift something easier.
Talaria and Surron bikes are also so popluar that I doubt that the manufacturers don't consider worth it to spend money in R&D to learn how to shape and manufacture strong, sturdy structural parts.