Tarrifs...How will they affect Stark Varg EX pricing?

[Jasperfield]

Are there any expected tarrifs affecting Stark pricing...and thereby deliveries?

 

[AL_V]

Are there any expected tarrifs affecting Stark pricing...and thereby deliveries?

Time is running out!
Trump says 25% tariffs on EU will be announced soon

 

[HadesOmega]

From what I understand the stupid tariffs are against Canada, Mexico, and China. I haven't heard anything about tariffs on european countries. It depends where all the manufacturing is. I believe they build them in Spain right?

 

[Philip]

From what I understand the stupid tariffs are against Canada, Mexico, and China.

That's what I thought too.

/Political rant/
I agree that tariffs are indeed stupid. Not every foreign company is subsidized by foreign governments or has the luxury to move production to the US. These tariffs are against the US consumers. They will be added to the price of the goods on top of the current state sales taxes. They will be funneling more of our money to the Federal Government. I would only support tariffs if the income tax is abolished.
/End rant/

 

[markanddona]

That's what I thought too.

/Political rant/
I agree that tariffs are indeed stupid. Not every foreign company is subsidized by foreign governments or has the luxury to move production to the US. These tariffs are against the US consumers. They will be added to the price of the goods on top of the current state sales taxes. They will be funneling more of our money to the Federal Government. I would only support tariffs if the income tax is abolished.
/End rant/

So we have to pay their tariff's? That's BS, at the minimum it should be reciprocal, or none at all.

 

[HadesOmega]

Well one way or another the consumers will pay for it. If it costs more to produce a product the logical thing to do is raise the price of it.

 

[Beagle]

The US is going at war with pretty much all their trade partners (Canada, Mexico, EU...). Nobody wins a trade war, it's going to be costly for everyone.

By disavowing its current trade agreements, the US is also devaluing its own words on an international scale, big time. Who will want to sign another agreement that can be negated the next day?

Latin America has turned away from the US replacing it with China as their main trade partner in the past decade, now it's time for Canada and Europe to turn away from the US. This 4D chess business is way too clever for me.

What can a company like Stark do about it? Not much, just try to rely less on the US market.

 

[happyinmotion]

I'm in NZ and our economy depends upon trade. The US starting a trade war is going to hurt us. Professionally, I work with companies that are going to be affected by this, so I have options. Maybe get yourself a cup of tea coz this is going to be a long comment...

Who wins in a trade war? China and India. They are reliable partners and they want our exports. It's been going that way for a while. Ten years ago our exports to the China were about the same as our exports to the US. Now, we're exporting three times as much to China as to the US. As for India, our PM is there right now negotiating a free trade deal. So this war is going to hurt us, but not too bad, because we can go elsewhere.

Tariffs mean that the rest of the world turns away from America. We get on with trading with each other.

How does this affect motorbikes and Stark? China and Indian make most of the world's bikes. The big bikes sold in the West are a tiny fraction of the market. America is literally 1% of the world motorcyle market. China and India make the affordable bikes that sell in huge numbers, like the 400 twins that have pushed Triumph over to record sales this year. The 400 Harleys made by Hero that don't make it to the US market. All the little KTMs made by Bajaj. CF Moto (China) and Royal Enfield (India) are big and growing in the NZ market.

And China is where you go for electric vehicles. Seriously, their domination of the technology and production is insane. They've In the last four years they've gone from nowhere to a third of the world export market for battery cars. I can go and buy a BYD for a third less than a Tesla.

Stark wants/needs volume. They're making 10,000 bikes a year and they can do that in Spain. They want to make a million bikes a year and that means India or China. So their partnership with Eicher (Royal Enfield) makes perfect sense.

Stark needs technology - specifically higher energy density cylindrical cells, which means Li-NMC. The cells in the MX were Molicell from Taiwan. They have changed suppliers and haven't said where the new cells come from. My guess is one of the Chinese manufacturers, or maybe Samsung. No-one else is even close to competitive.

Tariffs are going to have a bunch of effects. For any bikes imported into the US, the bikes get more expensive so people will buy fewer bikes. That hurts all the overseas manfuacturers. That might benefit a few smaller US bike producers like Dust, Land, Sondors, Fuell, Zero, Lightening, Ryvid - oh wait half of those are already bankrupt or moving production to China. The US can't suddenly start manufacturing electric dirt bikes at scale.

Tariffs mean less choice and higher prices for US riders.

For the rest of the world, US tariffs just mean that we sell to each other. That doesn't directly affect the prices we pay for bikes.

For Stark, their route to profit-per-bike depends upon higher-value markets in Canada & EU & Asia. Stark's route to selling 1000x more bikes depends upon medium-wealth markets like China, India, Mexico, Brazil, etc. The US market was nice, it's ceratinly high profile, but eh, who needs that much drama?

So if I was Anton, I'd:
a) Pull a cool wheelie
b) Partner with an Indian motorcycle manufacturer to plan higher volume lower cost production for the next model
c) Be talking with all the Chinese battery manufacturers about their next cells
d) Focus sales effort on the rest of the world

It seems like he's doing all of those things.

 

[DaveAusNor]

I hope so. But he's mentioned numerous times that the US is their biggest market. Less sales in that market will impact their business. But I guess we just have to wait and see if these tariffs aren't all just some big bluff

 

[svtride]

Are there any expected tarrifs affecting Stark pricing...and thereby deliveries?

Imported motorcycles seem to be US tariff exempt..

Dodge Trump Tariffs With This One Weird, Two-Wheel Trick (Car Dealers Hate It) - Jalopnik

Can anyone confirm this?

I’m awaiting an EX delivery, hopefully shortly, in NC.

 

[flailer]

You guys understand that
- Canada has as high as 263% tariffs against US?
- that China has hundreds of different tariffs against US?
- and That China has for decades been stealing via violating copyright laws, as well as taking technology?
- that Mexico exports BILLIONS of US dollars with no taxation or penalties?

Are you, you, going to get the other countries to stop abusing us?

Pfffffff

 

[DaveAusNor]

You guys understand that
- Canada has as high as 263% tariffs against US?

This was surprising to me so I looked it up. I seems to be just cherry picking data points to paint a picture that the US is being "abused" as you say.

Yes, Canada imposes tariffs as high as 263% on certain U.S. agricultural products, particularly within its supply-managed sectors such as dairy and poultry. These high tariffs are part of Canada's supply management system, which regulates the production and importation of dairy, poultry, and eggs to stabilize prices and support domestic producers. The tariffs are designed to protect these sectors by limiting imports that exceed specific quotas. For instance, imports of chicken, turkey, eggs, and dairy products that surpass established tariff rate quotas (TRQs) are subject to these elevated tariff rates. Wikipedia
It's important to note that these high tariffs apply only to imports exceeding the predetermined quotas. Imports within the quota limits are subject to much lower or zero tariffs.

 

[Beagle]

There's really no need to answer claims than Canada, Mexico or EU would have somewhat been able to coerce or abuse the greatest economic and military power in the world to sign trade agreements unfavorable to it.

There is nothing rational behind this.



What should concern American citizens is that US signature holds no value anymore when agreements can be rescinded at the stroke of a pen, and that rules keep changing almost on a daily basis.
This is just actively driving commercial partners and allies away from the US, just like latin America main trade partner switched from US to China in the past decade. Nobody wins except China.

America is now threatening Canada and UE to not forge closer trade relations which is simply the consequence of US own actions. Is Canada bullying the US, is Canada trying to tank US economy or is it the other way round? That shouldn't even be a question ever.

 

[Sunce]

You guys understand that
- Canada has as high as 263% tariffs against US?
- that China has hundreds of different tariffs against US?
- and That China has for decades been stealing via violating copyright laws, as well as taking technology?
- that Mexico exports BILLIONS of US dollars with no taxation or penalties?

Are you, you, going to get the other countries to stop abusing us?

Pfffffff

This dude get it🫡

 

[F451]

There is nothing rational behind this.

View attachment 13472

What should concern American citizens is that US signature holds no value anymore when agreements can be rescinded at the stroke of a pen, and that rules keep changing almost on a daily basis.
This is just actively driving commercial partners and allies away from the US, just like latin America main trade partner switched from US to China in the past decade. Nobody wins except China.

America is now threatening Canada and UE to not forge closer trade relations which is simply the consequence of US own actions. Is Canada bullying the US, is Canada trying to tank US economy or is it the other way round? That shouldn't even be a question ever.

More accurately:

"Trump (and his Maga sycophants) is now threatening Canada and UE to not forge closer trade relations which is simply the consequence of Trump (and his Maga sycophants) own actions. Is Canada bullying the US, is Canada trying to tank US economy or is it the other way round? That shouldn't even be a question ever."

Just to be clear here, these are Trump's threats and actions. These threats and actions are not representative of the majority of US citizens who are against these chaotic and destructive policies. These policies are overwhelmingly opposed here in the US.

 

[Sunce]

More accurately:

"Trump (and his Maga sycophants) is now threatening Canada and UE to not forge closer trade relations which is simply the consequence of Trump (and his Maga sycophants) own actions. Is Canada bullying the US, is Canada trying to tank US economy or is it the other way round? That shouldn't even be a question ever."

Just to be clear here, these are Trump's threats and actions. These threats and actions are not representative of the majority of US citizens who are against these chaotic and destructive policies. These policies are overwhelmingly opposed here in the US.

You guys understand that
- Canada has as high as 263% tariffs against US?
- that China has hundreds of different tariffs against US?
- and That China has for decades been stealing via violating copyright laws, as well as taking technology?
- that Mexico exports BILLIONS of US dollars with no taxation or penalties?

Are you, you, going to get the other countries to stop abusing us?

Pfffffff

Imagine having all that money Biden tossed at Ukraine for free that majority of Americans disagreed.. love when I see colored hair folks crying Trump been waiting four years quiet for it. lol

 

[Beagle]

More accurately:

"Trump (and his Maga sycophants) is now threatening Canada and UE to not forge closer trade relations which is simply the consequence of Trump (and his Maga sycophants) own actions. Is Canada bullying the US, is Canada trying to tank US economy or is it the other way round? That shouldn't even be a question ever."

Just to be clear here, these are Trump's threats and actions. These threats and actions are not representative of the majority of US citizens who are against these chaotic and destructive policies. These policies are overwhelmingly opposed here in the US.

I feel for you, I really do.
Ofc it doesn't mean you all agree with him but sadly the majority of your fellow citizens voted for him, they chose him to represent them, so when he speaks now, he speaks for your country.

We're really derailing the topic, good thing is no one cares about motorcycles so they're safe for now.
Businesses need stability, especially if we're talking long term investment. Unpredictability is never good for business so you'll end up paying more and businesses who are able to will work to reduce their dependency to the US market. It's already happening.

 

[Beagle]

Anything EU, including Vargs, will get 20% tariff starting April 9th.
Good night and good luck.

 

[happyinmotion]

Oof. Those tariffs are more than I was expecting. China's reciprocating, India & EU are pissed, and motorcycles are definitely caught by this.

What this means for Stark into the US?

Stark's US importers are going to have to pay 20% on the wholesale cost. If the bikes are selling for US$13k, the cost at import is retail less dealer and distributor mark-ups. So that's an extra $2k on the wholesake price, give or take.

What this means for US bikers who want a Stark?

Yeah, you're fucked. That's a 20% extra on the cost of your import. Dealers will say their margins are five-eights of fuck all, so they can't absorb that cost and will pass all of the price rise on to customers. Tariff supporters will say that there's fat in the supply chain and dealers and distributors will have to wear it. The answer will be somewhere in the middle but my sympathies are with the dealers here - they don't look like businesses with high margins. So your prices for bikes are going up, just as they are for everything else.

What this means for US bikers who want a comparable electric bike?

This is good news, I suppose, for those nascent electric bike companies in the US, like... errr... who?

Zero have just launched their lightweight bikes, but those are made in China. So that leaves start-ups like Dust Moto, Land, Bonnell. So yeah, maybe in a few years when these companies have caught up and are actually in production, you might be able to buy a bike like that.

This is kind of the point of these tariffs - to make it easier for start-ups like those who are trying to manufacture in the US. And that's a fair goal for trade policy. Protecting nascent industries is why China & India have built world-class manufacturing. But that also requires more than just an extra 20% cost difference. It requires active support. It requires bright minds having a reason to study engineering not finance. It requires certainty for anyone putting up the capital to build a factory. And it requires a huge amount of raw materials and manufacturing hardware which is going to have to come from overseas. I don't see any of that happening.

And it requires US workers to accept the wages that Chinese and India workers accept. That's not going to happen willingly.

Oh, and why should a US bike manufacturer price their bikes any lower than the price of a Stark plus tariffs? They won't. So you'll be paying more for US made bikes than you did last week for foreign bikes.

What this means for US buyers who want petrol bike?

China and India are making great bikes. I'm in NZ and all the growth is in lightweight dual-sports. The biggest selling bike here is Chinese - CF Moto's MT450. That's selling two-thirds more than the next best seller. That's India's Royal Enfield Himalayan. Next is Triumph's 400c Scrambler, made in India by Bajaj.

Chinese bikes are getting a 54% tax; Indian bikes 26%. So good luck with that.

What this means for non-US Stark buyers?

Eh, whatever. No change for us.

(Apart from this squabble causing a global recession, that is. Thanks.)

 

[AL_V]

Oof. Those tariffs are more than I was expecting. China's reciprocating, India & EU are pissed, and motorcycles are definitely caught by this.

Nice write up happy!
Very neutral, accurate, and objective!