Tarrifs...How will they affect Stark Varg EX pricing?

[Beagle]

These so-called "discounted reciprocal tariffs" aren't either discounted nor reciprocal. In fact the left column, "tariffs imposed on USA..." has nothing to do with tariffs imposed on the US nor countries taking advantage of the US, it's a simple formula based on 2024 trade balance.

Reciprocal Tariff Calculations

Executive Summary Reciprocal tariffs are calculated as the tariff rate necessary to balance bilateral trade deficits between the U.S. and each of our trading partners. This calculation assumes that persistent trade deficits are due to a combination of tariff and non-tariff factors that prevent...

ustr.gov

Here is my favorite explainer



So it's about punishing countries that sell more than they buy to the US. That's it.
Top of the list, the "worst offenders" with 40-50% tariffs are: Vietnam, Cambodia, Sri Lanka, Madagascar, Myanmar, Laos, Lesotho, Mauritius, Falkland islands, Syria and St Pierre et Miquelon.
Low wage and/or tiny countries who can't possibly buy more American cars or products because they are poor (or they have 6000 inhabitants like St Pierre) so these tariffs can't achieve anything.

By the way if Russia hadn't been magically exempted they would be up there at 41% given the huge US trade deficit with Russia.

In short :

Countries applying 0 tariff to the US (hi Australia !) get 10% tariff.

Countries whom with the US has a trade surplus get 10% tariff.

Industrialized countries applying moderate 1-5% US tariffs get 20% (EU) or 24% (Japan) tariff.

Low wage countries with whom the US has huge trade deficit get 40-50% tariffs.

Now if you think so, could you please cite which countries are currently applying crazy high tariffs to the US or explain how the new huge taxes to be paid by US consumers are going to help US get lower tariffs or increase US exports or build more US factories?

Americans will pay about $4k more taxes this year, dirt bikes prices are all going up (20% tariff on EU, 24% for Japan, 10% for UK) but that won't make HD build dirt bikes or sportbikes.

 

[AbnormalWrench]

It is kind of crazy we even need to spell out how absurd things are. It would be like someone claiming they can fly by flapping their arms. We don't need a complicated physics explanation here. You can watch them fall out of windows and smash into the ground. We have centuries of data on what effect tariffs have, and they are all bad. At best it will increase manufacturing here by 10%, but I don't think it will even be that high. You would need to convince businesses that the tariffs will stay in place for decades, and no one has any reason to believe that, so no company is going to make large investments based on that assumption. So it is 100% pain with 0% gain.

There is a place for tariffs, but it is a scalpel for very specific, unique situations. This isn't that. This is destroying the global economy for no benefit whatsoever.

 

[Philip]

There is a place for tariffs, but it is a scalpel for very specific, unique situations. This isn't that. This is destroying the global economy for no benefit whatsoever.

The US has imposed sanctions on itself. Putin loves it!

 

[Beagle]

The US has imposed sanctions on itself. Putin loves it!

And unfortunately this self inflicted wound, huge, on a scale never been before, is also propagating on the world stage since our economies are so intertwined.

 

[Chaconne]

And unfortunately this self inflicted wound, huge, on a scale never been before, is also propagating on the world stage since our economies are so intertwined.

The naming is used to fool the public. It is a name shift game, tariffs are taxes on consumers. If they were called what they were no conman would be able to sell that in the US.

 

[Erwin P]

For what it's worth. The Netherlands increased their BPM (taxes special to bikes/cars etc) on E bikes from 0 to 19,4% wich should add €2.565 to the EX Alpha. However the price remained the same.

Maybe the 20% tarif on EU bikes for the US will do the same. However that market is way bigger than the Dutch one so i might expect the price to rise.

 

[Erwin P]

These so-called "discounted reciprocal tariffs" aren't either discounted nor reciprocal. In fact the left column, "tariffs imposed on USA..." has nothing to do with tariffs imposed on the US nor countries taking advantage of the US, it's a simple formula based on 2024 trade balance.

Reciprocal Tariff Calculations

Executive Summary Reciprocal tariffs are calculated as the tariff rate necessary to balance bilateral trade deficits between the U.S. and each of our trading partners. This calculation assumes that persistent trade deficits are due to a combination of tariff and non-tariff factors that prevent...

ustr.gov

Here is my favorite explainer

View attachment 13498

So it's about punishing countries that sell more than they buy to the US. That's it.
Top of the list, the "worst offenders" with 40-50% tariffs are: Vietnam, Cambodia, Sri Lanka, Madagascar, Myanmar, Laos, Lesotho, Mauritius, Falkland islands, Syria and St Pierre et Miquelon.
Low wage and/or tiny countries who can't possibly buy more American cars or products because they are poor (or they have 6000 inhabitants like St Pierre) so these tariffs can't achieve anything.

By the way if Russia hadn't been magically exempted they would be up there at 41% given the huge US trade deficit with Russia.

In short :

Countries applying 0 tariff to the US (hi Australia !) get 10% tariff.

Countries whom with the US has a trade surplus get 10% tariff.

Industrialized countries applying moderate 1-5% US tariffs get 20% (EU) or 24% (Japan) tariff.

Low wage countries with whom the US has huge trade deficit get 40-50% tariffs.

Now if you think so, could you please cite which countries are currently applying crazy high tariffs to the US or explain how the new huge taxes to be paid by US consumers are going to help US get lower tariffs or increase US exports or build more US factories?

Americans will pay about $4k more taxes this year, dirt bikes prices are all going up (20% tariff on EU, 24% for Japan, 10% for UK) but that won't make HD build dirt bikes or sportbikes.

Funny sidenote. That only incluides actual products. Services are left out. And that's where the US has a deficit to almost every country. Would you add that in the tarifs would be way lower still.
But actually i don't try to bother too much. It does concern everyone, but i suspect it won't be a huge deal to me personally. But i take quite the smile out of teasing Americans with it

 

[Chaconne]

For what it's worth. The Netherlands increased their BPM (taxes special to bikes/cars etc) on E bikes from 0 to 19,4% wich should add €2.565 to the EX Alpha. However the price remained the same.

Maybe the 20% tarif on EU bikes for the US will do the same. However that market is way bigger than the Dutch one so i might expect the price to rise.

Somebody eats the 20% cost. In order to lower the price Stark or the importers might buy lesser quality parts from their suppliers or importers might layoff some workers. Businesses are in business to make make money not friends and none will gladly eat the 20% tax. Usually that is what consumers get i.e. the costs passed to them here in the US at least. If it seems too good to be true, it probably is.

 

[Erwin P]

We don't have an importer. Just dealers dealing directly with Stark. From what i've heard they a dividing the 19,4 increase over here.

The logic being they need to make a name and need to be at a certain price point not to far above ICE options. So their price is based on the market and less on the amount of profit per unit.

However every A-brand dirtbike gets 20-24% more expensive in the US. So they might feel less pressure to not follow that line.

 

[OpaTsupa]

For what it's worth. The Netherlands increased their BPM (taxes special to bikes/cars etc) on E bikes from 0 to 19,4% wich should add €2.565 to the EX Alpha. However the price remained the same.

Maybe the 20% tarif on EU bikes for the US will do the same. However that market is way bigger than the Dutch one so i might expect the price to rise.

I must say you've taken the 20% tax like a gentlemen.
I'd be reaching for my pitchfork.

Still, it looks like right now the Netherlands has a highest price in the EU:


It looks like Stark is massaging the price for many countries so as to make it level.
For example, Hungary and Germany VAT is 27% and 19% respectively, but they have the same retail price: 12.900e.
Someone must eat the 1000eur/$ difference.

 

[Erwin P]

The ICE bikes have been 19,4% ish for decades. E bikes had a temporary 0% wich ended. This is ex the 21% VAT on any goods.

Bikes, cars and anything with wheels are more expensive in the Netherlands, we got used to it.
Our wages are also among the highest with 14,06 euro/hour as minimum by law. A multitude of most EU countrys.

 

[Chaconne]

I must say you've taken the 20% tax like a gentlemen.
I'd be reaching for my pitchfork.

Still, it looks like right now the Netherlands has a highest price in the EU:
View attachment 13539

It looks like Stark is massaging the price for many countries so as to make it level.
For example, Hungary and Germany VAT is 27% and 19% respectively, but they have the same retail price: 12.900e.
Someone must eat the 1000eur/$ difference.

Looks like we don't have the tax for 90 days now. Apparently the "national emergency" of fentanyl addiction can be magically paused while our current leaders wait for the markets to recover. I haven't yet figured out how that applies to most of the tariff'd countries anyway, but I bet I could conjure something with a few hits of Blotter Acid from the 1980s

 

[Beagle]

Looks like we don't have the tax for 90 days now. Apparently the "national emergency" of fentanyl addiction can be magically paused while our current leaders wait for the markets to recover. I haven't yet figured out how that applies to most of the tariff'd countries anyway, but I bet I could conjure something with a few hits of Blotter Acid from the 1980s

Still 10% tax for EU as for everyone bar Russia (and China, Canada and Mexico getting their own tariffs).

 

[Swank171]

You guys understand that
- Canada has as high as 263% tariffs against US?
- that China has hundreds of different tariffs against US?
- and That China has for decades been stealing via violating copyright laws, as well as taking technology?
- that Mexico exports BILLIONS of US dollars with no taxation or penalties?

Are you, you, going to get the other countries to stop abusing us?

Pfffffff

Glad someone said it…..I’m taxed half my check as week and these countries are slapping US with tariffs and we just keep slaving….but don’t do to them what they do to us. Just get robbed and keep moving.

Time to level the playing field. I don’t get how ending the charity cause we just had the worst 4 years in American history that put in so much debt we are in the verge if collapse is a bad thing. We can’t help anyone if we collapse.

All I hear is people saying it’s a bad idea. What we were doing surely wasn’t working….Boone has any other ideas.

Lower inflation
Lower rates
Lower taxes
Essentially stimulating the middle class and leveraging the biggest hammer in the to box…the American consumer. Bring production back to America and stimulate the consumer. All the money stays here.

No brained.

Meanwhile throw some tariffs in there to generate more revenue and allowing other countries to enjoy the massive consumption of America.

All the US is now is a consumer….thats a bad business model.

Thats like starting a business and getting a business loan then just spending the money on things you want and food….if you don’t produce you won’t exist….

I’ll happily pay a little more for things and stop buying some things all together to allow my children to live in a safe AMERICA as far away from a communist society as possible.

 

[Erwin P]

I agree from a US standpoint the US should buy less abroad.
Multiple ways to that. Stop the giant over consumption (US is even more of a trow-away culture than the EU), or produce more at home.

The tarifs are not based on other countries tarifs, just the trade deficit in goods, services arn't even in the equation, with services mostly comming more from the US not taking them into account widens the gap.
The average EU tarif against US products is roughly 2%. Vice versa they were a tad higher allready, but this is a huge jump.
''Mistaking'' trade defecit to other country's posing tarifs is just beyond misleading.

You are just buying more than you should and putting that to a halt is good. But declaring a trade war on the entire world, also the country's that did exactly as you asked might be like doing a brain tumor operation with a sledgehammer. Sure the tumor is gone, but the patient died all over the room.

Trump likes to point out the gap in the EU buying very few US cars but the other way around is huge. Lets just take that example.
- Just soom in at any village in Europe. How well do you think an average American car will fit there?
- We were buying Tesla's, subsidised by gouvernment money (so actually negative tarifs?), but as soon as that stopped and other E cars came Tesla sales dropped.
- The amount of fuel a US car uses is just huge. Fuel is still almost free in the US compared to the EU.
- US cars just don't have the fit and finish EU customers want.
So in the end, fixing that has nothing to do with tarifs etc etc. Just build a damn product we would actually want.

I actually work as a proces operator in a big factory. Setting up another production hall takes years. Let alone build a production plant in a country that doesn't have it.
We actually build a plant in the US and that took more than the sitting period of a US president.
Company's want to know for sure their investment is a good one. With tarifs jumping all over the place a 4 year build, 10-15 years return on investment is just to uncertain in this trade war scenario so you don't even get production at home unless the gouvernment makes some guarantees and helps investments.

In the end the US should do what it feels like in trade, but remember no ordinary people benefit form wars, be it conventional or trade.

 

[Beagle]

I agree from a US standpoint the US should buy less abroad.
Multiple ways to that. Stop the giant over consumption (US is even more of a trow-away culture than the EU), or produce more at home.

The tarifs are not based on other countries tarifs, just the trade deficit in goods, services arn't even in the equation, with services mostly comming more from the US not taking them into account widens the gap.
The average EU tarif against US products is roughly 2%. Vice versa they were a tad higher allready, but this is a huge jump.
''Mistaking'' trade defecit to other country's posing tarifs is just beyond misleading.

You are just buying more than you should and putting that to a halt is good. But declaring a trade war on the entire world, also the country's that did exactly as you asked might be like doing a brain tumor operation with a sledgehammer. Sure the tumor is gone, but the patient died all over the room.

Trump likes to point out the gap in the EU buying very few US cars but the other way around is huge. Lets just take that example.
- Just soom in at any village in Europe. How well do you think an average American car will fit there?
- We were buying Tesla's, subsidised by gouvernment money (so actually negative tarifs?), but as soon as that stopped and other E cars came Tesla sales dropped.
- The amount of fuel a US car uses is just huge. Fuel is still almost free in the US compared to the EU.
- US cars just don't have the fit and finish EU customers want.
So in the end, fixing that has nothing to do with tarifs etc etc. Just build a damn product we would actually want.

I actually work as a proces operator in a big factory. Setting up another production hall takes years. Let alone build a production plant in a country that doesn't have it.
We actually build a plant in the US and that took more than the sitting period of a US president.
Company's want to know for sure their investment is a good one. With tarifs jumping all over the place a 4 year build, 10-15 years return on investment is just to uncertain in this trade war scenario so you don't even get production at home unless the gouvernment makes some guarantees and helps investments.

In the end the US should do what it feels like in trade, but remember no ordinary people benefit form wars, be it conventional or trade.

The imaginary tariffs imposed on the USA by hostile actors really captured the minds, even though they were debunked the next day, that's how disinformation works.

The car industry is interesting , it's in fact one of the few examples where non tariff barriers are somewhat relevant (even though they were not taken into account at all in the numbers presented on the big boards). At least from the US POV.

Trump complains EU and Japan don't buy enough American cars because of non tariff barriers. Guess what the "non tariff barriers" are here?
Environnemental and safety regulations. That's right, a huge proportion of US cars can't be imported into the EU simply because they don't pass the crash tests and/or emission tests.

In fact environnemental and safety regulations are not really trade barriers, Asian car manufacturers have no issues with importing their cars into the EU, it's only an issue if you want to apportion some blame on others. Why would we impose less restrictions on foreign manufacturers than on our own? Everybody has to play by the same rules, it's only fair.

I would also point out that US car manufacturers don't even have half of the market share... in the US. I very much doubt Europeans would run to buy less safe, more polluting and fuel-hungry cars even if they were more available.

 

[Erwin P]

Apart form everything else. Just try to park the damn thing somewhere in a Dutch/French/Italian village and you're in for a treat.
My cousin actually likes American cars and has a Dodge Ram. Everywhere he parks the nose of the car is still on the road. Whenever he is visiting i have to ask neighbours to move their cars because he can't fit into 1 parking spot.

There are countless reasons not to buy an American car here. But Tarifs arn't it.
True in various country's of wich the Netherlands you pay some sort of tax when buying the car. It's directly linked to it's CO2 footprint. Well you see where that goes for American cars... For a Dodge Ram/Ford F150 it's around €50.000 to €80.000 depending on the model. Then comes 21% VAT (both on top and over that). And by then you have a car you can't park, will bleed you dry in fuel and monthly taxes and is highly impractical.

 

[Chaconne]

So you w

Glad someone said it…..I’m taxed half my check as week and these countries are slapping US with tariffs and we just keep slaving….but don’t do to them what they do to us. Just get robbed and keep moving.

Time to level the playing field. I don’t get how ending the charity cause we just had the worst 4 years in American history that put in so much debt we are in the verge if collapse is a bad thing. We can’t help anyone if we collapse.

All I hear is people saying it’s a bad idea. What we were doing surely wasn’t working….Boone has any other ideas.

Lower inflation
Lower rates
Lower taxes
Essentially stimulating the middle class and leveraging the biggest hammer in the to box…the American consumer. Bring production back to America and stimulate the consumer. All the money stays here.

No brained.

Meanwhile throw some tariffs in there to generate more revenue and allowing other countries to enjoy the massive consumption of America.

All the US is now is a consumer….thats a bad business model.

Thats like starting a business and getting a business loan then just spending the money on things you want and food….if you don’t produce you won’t exist….

I’ll happily pay a little more for things and stop buying some things all together to allow my children to live in a safe AMERICA as far away from a communist society as possible.

So you want to pay more taxes? It is not a leveling the playing field. If you punch yourself in the nuts you don't win the fight. Because other countries (sales) tax their consumers outrageously is no argument to tax us at those rates that is "no brained". Do you want to pay the same income tax as folks in the EU do to "level the playing field"?

You say about half your check is chewed up in tax and then sign up to pay more taxes how is that logical? Tariffs are collected by our government at the port of entry and the tax cost is passed on to you. Plain and simple it is a sales tax you pay. Falling for phony nostalgia for taxes is crazy. "Throw some tariffs" is the same as saying "throw some taxes" why not hand your whole check over to the government. You are not "generating" business revenue you are generating TAX revenue. Frankly eliding that fact is bullshit.

And you are outright wrong to say we are just a consumer nation, we already have plenty of production. In fact manufacturing dollar value still makes up a large part of our economic volume, we just produce higher value products that don't require large labor forces and rust belt assembly lines to do that.

Besides, when the corporate guys were making a fortune selling off depreciated old school manufacturing equipment (which was written off) to places like China in the 70s 80s 90s and 2ks there was no crying about it. The business guys saw then that that kind of high volume low value production had been going away for a long time --the costs in capital investment weren't worth it and raising taxes won't fix that. Plus, on top of all that, nobody in the American middle class is raising their kid to work in a in Chinese car factory or soldering iPhone boards on the assembly line. Taxes won't make us 1970 again no matter how the politicians on both sides of the aisle spin it.

 

[Chaconne]

I agree from a US standpoint the US should buy less abroad.
Multiple ways to that. Stop the giant over consumption (US is even more of a trow-away culture than the EU), or produce more at home.

The tarifs are not based on other countries tarifs, just the trade deficit in goods, services arn't even in the equation, with services mostly comming more from the US not taking them into account widens the gap.
The average EU tarif against US products is roughly 2%. Vice versa they were a tad higher allready, but this is a huge jump.
''Mistaking'' trade defecit to other country's posing tarifs is just beyond misleading.

You are just buying more than you should and putting that to a halt is good. But declaring a trade war on the entire world, also the country's that did exactly as you asked might be like doing a brain tumor operation with a sledgehammer. Sure the tumor is gone, but the patient died all over the room.

Trump likes to point out the gap in the EU buying very few US cars but the other way around is huge. Lets just take that example.
- Just soom in at any village in Europe. How well do you think an average American car will fit there?
- We were buying Tesla's, subsidised by gouvernment money (so actually negative tarifs?), but as soon as that stopped and other E cars came Tesla sales dropped.
- The amount of fuel a US car uses is just huge. Fuel is still almost free in the US compared to the EU.
- US cars just don't have the fit and finish EU customers want.
So in the end, fixing that has nothing to do with tarifs etc etc. Just build a damn product we would actually want.

I actually work as a proces operator in a big factory. Setting up another production hall takes years. Let alone build a production plant in a country that doesn't have it.
We actually build a plant in the US and that took more than the sitting period of a US president.
Company's want to know for sure their investment is a good one. With tarifs jumping all over the place a 4 year build, 10-15 years return on investment is just to uncertain in this trade war scenario so you don't even get production at home unless the gouvernment makes some guarantees and helps investments.

In the end the US should do what it feels like in trade, but remember no ordinary people benefit form wars, be it conventional or trade.

Why should we buy less abroad? In the US we let the market guide our consumption we don't want to stop that it is why our economy thrives. We are not Europeans and the rates of taxes, protectionism, and government intervention you accept is not acceptable here. Never has been. And that is what make us different from you.

And despite our schizoid government, generally Americans want the market to guide consumption we let the market decide that not the government. Europeans are happy with what we see as excess government and that is fine we won't prescribe for you and you don't have to prescribe for us.

Plus, our economy has been thriving generally we have very low unemployment and much stronger growth than most other peer countries and post Pandemic we had a very fast solid economic recovery. The whole argument that we have giant over consumption and that we need big daddy government to tell us how to behave is simply unAmerican. And to have Trump or Biden aged old farts pillage us with more taxes based on nostalgia so we consume like we did in 1975 is frankly a grandpa pipe dream.

Our problem is mostly in the gap that has been growing between the top and the rest of the economic pyramid. Our pyramid is huge our GDP is double China's and bigger than the top 5 combined, we are rich beyond belief in resources like water, land, oil, gas, minerals, agriculture, production capacity and we have the opportunities for growth for the next 100+ years easy. On top of that we are still a magnet for immigrants. While Europeans and Asians suffer with declining populations (like Japan, Korea, and Italy for example) we have a huge pool of immigrants with similar cultures and customs dying to come here right on our border. We have to turn them away.

With all that said and what we have our middle class is not expanding and we have numbers of left behind folks that we haven't seen since the transition from agriculture to industrialism in the late 19th and early 20th Century. And that is a problem we have to work on. Our system is not good at distribution of wealth (and never has been) and that has caused problems in other areas in the past. Also we are lousy at history and tend to repeat our mistakes and then we fall prey to snake oil salesman, nostalgia, populists, and get rich quick schemes until economic crashes, depressions, or scandals put things back on track after years of recovery.

Last I generally agree with your view on tariffs as policy but for different reasons.

 

[RJS]