Thinking electric... again... garage full of parts still

[Kurlon]

So, as ice season approaches and the set of KTM ice wheels gather dust in my garage... I'm once again thinking about getting another dirty bike. I've got a 1992 Yamaha WR250ZD that's been heavily reworked already, but it has an odd running issue I don't have the space to try and diag, and at this point I'm pretty confident the answer is going to be a rebuild back to stock bore so... it's collecting dust. Actually, I've got a lot in my garage collecting dust at the moment:
- Warp 9 sumo wheel set for KTMs
- Warp 9 sumo mag rear wheel for KTM
- OEM KTM wheels with ice tires
- Two sets of RAD MFG sumo wheel sets for Yamahas
- 06 KTM SMR front forks sprung and valved for me, with radial caliper
- 92 WR250ZD with 09 YZ450 forks in custom road race offset clamps, Berringer 6 pot sumo brake setup

I don't ride dirt/ice/sumo much any more, but would like the option to be there when opportunities arise, a bike that for the most part can sit and not care about EFI gumming up, etc would be nice, hence thinking electric. I'd like to be able to utilize some of what I've got to maximize my options. (Sumo sadly would be limited, my primary track I have access to has a strict no electric policy so... bah.)

I'd be going EX or SM and throwing a plate on.
- KTM wheels, still just a spacer swap to bolt up?
- Will my 09 YZ450 forks bolt up into the Varg's triples, KYBs but I don't remember what fork spacing is for OEM Yamaha? I know my KTM WP set won't.
- Does the SM change any of the part swap details, does it have a shorter swingarm/altered fork length from the EX, or any other notable changes besides wheels and a four pot radial front brake? Did they widen the clamps ala SMR/FS bikes to get spoke clearance for the caliper?

 

[Lost]

Get the EX. It's going to be much less of a faff to swop between Disciplines. The fact that the brake bracket on the SM is cast as part of the fork clamp means you can't change to an enduro disk and the thread in axle is still an unknown...

 

[DaveAusNor]

+1 to EX. Will make swapping between dirt and SM much less complicated, and you'll be able to use much of what you already have.

 

[Theo]

Does the SM change any of the part swap details, does it have a shorter swingarm/altered fork length from the EX, or any other notable changes besides wheels and a four pot radial front brake? Did they widen the clamps ala SMR/FS bikes to get spoke clearance for the caliper?

The triple clamp is advertised by them to have a 16 mm offset:

whereas in my MX 1.0 I've measured a 22 mm offset.
Besides, from a side view it looks like the SM axle lug has a smaller offset.
I don't know about the distance between the two outer tubes.

I suggest that you check the part numbers of the components that you'd like to be compatible. The swingarm of the MX 1.0, for example, has a part number (SMX1-SR-S-KT) common to the MX 1.2, the EX and the SM, so it shouldn't be shorter in the SM.

 

[B. FRANK]

So, as ice season approaches and the set of KTM ice wheels gather dust in my garage... I'm once again thinking about getting another dirty bike. I've got a 1992 Yamaha WR250ZD that's been heavily reworked already, but it has an odd running issue I don't have the space to try and diag, and at this point I'm pretty confident the answer is going to be a rebuild back to stock bore so... it's collecting dust. Actually, I've got a lot in my garage collecting dust at the moment:
- Warp 9 sumo wheel set for KTMs
- Warp 9 sumo mag rear wheel for KTM
- OEM KTM wheels with ice tires
- Two sets of RAD MFG sumo wheel sets for Yamahas
- 06 KTM SMR front forks sprung and valved for me, with radial caliper
- 92 WR250ZD with 09 YZ450 forks in custom road race offset clamps, Berringer 6 pot sumo brake setup

I don't ride dirt/ice/sumo much any more, but would like the option to be there when opportunities arise, a bike that for the most part can sit and not care about EFI gumming up, etc would be nice, hence thinking electric. I'd like to be able to utilize some of what I've got to maximize my options. (Sumo sadly would be limited, my primary track I have access to has a strict no electric policy so... bah.)

I'd be going EX or SM and throwing a plate on.
- KTM wheels, still just a spacer swap to bolt up?
- Will my 09 YZ450 forks bolt up into the Varg's triples, KYBs but I don't remember what fork spacing is for OEM Yamaha? I know my KTM WP set won't.
- Does the SM change any of the part swap details, does it have a shorter swingarm/altered fork length from the EX, or any other notable changes besides wheels and a four pot radial front brake? Did they widen the clamps ala SMR/FS bikes to get spoke clearance for the caliper?

NO ELECTRICS ON A SUPERMOTO TRACK! are they afraid you will blow your motor and spill slippery electrons all over the road?

 

[Kurlon]

NO ELECTRICS ON A SUPERMOTO TRACK! are they afraid you will blow your motor and spill slippery electrons all over the road?

The facility is primarily a NASCAR track, with a full size road course, with lots of various paved access roads/etc that allow for fun sumo layouts to be adapted as well. The track owner has banned electrics, bikes, cars, doesn't matter. The primary concern point: In the event of a lithium fire they don't have a means of quickly and reliably putting it out or a safe place to transport it to later for cool down and eventually disposal. The risk of pavement damage is too high for them. So, until they're happy with the state of crash and fire response, no electric anything will be raced or tracked at that facility. That was my 1.5hr drive option, I used to have a track literally a couple towns over but that got bought out by a guy focused on karts who alienated the sumo community with some even wilder restrictions. My 'closest' option that allows electrics now is a 6hr drive...

 

[B. FRANK]

i know it is sour grapes but when the world does go electric we should boycott the tracks that banned us. when i was 11...1969 i and my friends had mini bikes with 1quart gas tanks. the three of us would fill up sometimes for a dime but always getting change for a quarter. the owner eventually told us not to come back, we weren't worth his time. years later when we all got drivers lisences we would drive our cars and pick ups in and when he asked how much say " sorry i forgot you don't want our business." and drive away.

 

[Kurlon]

i know it is sour grapes but when the world does go electric we should boycott the tracks that banned us. when i was 11...1969 i and my friends had mini bikes with 1quart gas tanks. the three of us would fill up sometimes for a dime but always getting change for a quarter. the owner eventually told us not to come back, we weren't worth his time. years later when we all got drivers lisences we would drive our cars and pick ups in and when he asked how much say " sorry i forgot you don't want our business." and drive away.

So, in the case of the local track that pushed us out, us being the sumo community in general, yeah, they're boycotted. The owner has tried to coax some of us back but got no traction.

In the case of the currently active track that says no electrics, I'm not ready to crucify them. They've got a legit concern, there has been some nasty pavement damage at other tracks from lithium batt fires, and all these tracks talk to each other so bad news spreads fast. They haven't said electrics will never be allowed, they've gated it on the availability of the track to be able to rapidly deal with incidents. Looking at MotoAmerica who DOES have electrics racing with the gassers in the Hooligans class, one of their primary sponsors is a fire suppressant company that makes product specifically for dealing with lithium battery fires. The cost is not cheap, cleanup is a mess, so not perfect but the tech is improving. Once it gets to the point that tracks are more comfortable with it and equipped, I expect electrics will be allowed to play.

E-Fire X - Lithium Battery Fire Extinguisher

The ONLY All-Natural Multi-Class Lithium Battery Fire Extinguisher. For use on all electric vehicles, bicycles, scooters and more. Keep one handy and Order yours today!

efirex.com

I plan on having one of those extinguishers with me should I get a Varg.

 

[Kurlon]

So, small update: My local sumo option WILL allow Starks, just can't road race them on the main track, so that's cool. Nothing in stock around me matching what I want, not sure I'm ready to play around again with an order... still researching.

 

[Chaconne]

So, in the case of the local track that pushed us out, us being the sumo community in general, yeah, they're boycotted. The owner has tried to coax some of us back but got no traction.

In the case of the currently active track that says no electrics, I'm not ready to crucify them. They've got a legit concern, there has been some nasty pavement damage at other tracks from lithium batt fires, and all these tracks talk to each other so bad news spreads fast. They haven't said electrics will never be allowed, they've gated it on the availability of the track to be able to rapidly deal with incidents. Looking at MotoAmerica who DOES have electrics racing with the gassers in the Hooligans class, one of their primary sponsors is a fire suppressant company that makes product specifically for dealing with lithium battery fires. The cost is not cheap, cleanup is a mess, so not perfect but the tech is improving. Once it gets to the point that tracks are more comfortable with it and equipped, I expect electrics will be allowed to play.

E-Fire X - Lithium Battery Fire Extinguisher

The ONLY All-Natural Multi-Class Lithium Battery Fire Extinguisher. For use on all electric vehicles, bicycles, scooters and more. Keep one handy and Order yours today!

efirex.com

I plan on having one of those extinguishers with me should I get a Varg.

Gasoline fires are dangerous as well. I think the risk of fire with my Varg is lower than with my gas bikes. My WR450 pre aftermarket fan would actually boil the gas. One day I came in from a ride and put my WR in the garage. My young son was in the garage playing, he came and got me a few minutes later and said my bike was making funny noises and the gas was continuing to boil in the tank... The thought of a spark certainly crossed my mind.

It is my understanding that "lithium" fires are actually caused by the organic solvents used in the electrolyte which --oddly enough-- are hydrocarbons.

 

[Chaconne]

So, small update: My local sumo option WILL allow Starks, just can't road race them on the main track, so that's cool. Nothing in stock around me matching what I want, not sure I'm ready to play around again with an order... still researching.

I think I have mentioned this to you before, not sure where you are in Maine, but I got my Starks from Motorbikes Plus in Portsmouth, New Hampshire. Really happy with the service and attention from those guys. I bought my KTMs from them over the years and they were great with my Vargs as well.

 

[Kurlon]

Issue with lithium fires at the track is the track's ability to A) put the fire out quickly and B) what to do with the remains after as they can re-ignite on their own after. Gas fires, a risk but they're equipped to quickly deal with them, and once out pretty easy to render the remains inert. The bigger risk from gas bikes isn't fire, it's spills being allowed to sit for too long on the pavement, softening it, but again, they've got materials on hand to quickly absorb the gas when it spills to prevent that. (Lost access to a mini racing spot 'cause people insisted on using some toxic race gas blends and would inevitably spill gas on a tip over. This place was primarily setup for RC cars so didn't have readydry/etc on hand, and we ended up putting holes in their nice pavement so... banned.)

Motorbikes Plus is about 40mi from me, and on my radar. Lots of friends have bought from them, but I'm still wary after my attempt to order though them before went sideways. They have stock, but nothing matching what I want at the moment. Turns out RaveX is also a Stark dealer and a bit closer, and I know the main wrench there, learned a ton working with him in the past on minis. They don't have any stock, so would be an order process with them as well...

Going to make some calls this coming week, see what OTD numbers look like, ball park turn around time estimates, etc.

I wish the Jarv-e was out and reviewed for comparison, the lower weight is really appealing to me, I've got fond memories of my 2019 KTM 150SX, had a 2016 250XC... sweet light bikes, and with KTM's current status there is a 2025 300SX that would be a big chunk cheaper, lighter, direct swap with my sumo wheels/forks, ice wheels... 15hr suggested piston replacement interval. :/ There are two 2024 500s for cheap... I had a 2016 500XC W so not quite as heavy as a Varg, torque for days, very under-stressed, low maint machine so I'm familiar with them as well... too many options clouding my decision process.

The bike is going to have long periods of sitting, on one hand for everything but the battery the Varg won't care about that. I won't have a filter drooling into the airbox as it's oil migrates south due to gravity, gas won't be doing eldrich horrors things in the lines/pump, etc. No premixing, no gas cans in general to worry about. But... battery SOC, phone SOC, those I DO have to pay attention to. On my gassers, toss'em on a tender and that side is sorted, does the Varg have a similar mode now where I can just let it sit at say 70% SOC, maintained no manual attention required?

 

[Theo]

battery SOC, phone SOC, those I DO have to pay attention to. On my gassers, toss'em on a tender and that side is sorted, does the Varg have a similar mode now where I can just let it sit at say 70% SOC, maintained no manual attention required?

Jokes aside,
Yes, the Varg app does have a function that limits the SoC so that when it reaches a certain value it won't go beyond that. However, the way I personally use it is that, when I want to charge the bike for storage, I set it to 50% and I still disconnect it some hours later and if I don't use the bike for two weeks it will self discharge to 30% and so I will charge it again.
You can ask customer support if it's OK to just set it to a value and leave it connected or if you can do a hard shut down for prolonged time: people here say that it'll self discharge way slower.
If you keep the phone off when you are not charging, nor using the bike, the phone won't self discharge significantly for weeks.

 

[Chaconne]

View attachment 15706



Jokes aside,
Yes, the Varg app does have a function that limits the SoC so that when it reaches a certain value it won't go beyond that. However, the way I personally use it is that, when I want to charge the bike for storage, I set it to 50% and I still disconnect it some hours later and if I don't use the bike for two weeks it will self discharge to 30% and so I will charge it again.
You can ask customer support if it's OK to just set it to a value and leave it connected or if you can do a hard shut down for prolonged time: people here say that it'll self discharge way slower.
If you keep the phone off when you are not charging, nor using the bike, the phone won't self discharge significantly for weeks.

I hard shutdown and my MX-1 stays at charge or near abouts for weeks.