Varg to compete @ British MX championships

[Number Six]

It's official.
Looks as if Stark will be allowed to compete at a high level against ICE machines in the British MX championships.
The ACU; the National Governing Body for motorcycle sport in the UK allows The VARG to compete against combustion bikes.

A couple interesting details from the rules package ;
MX2 Class – An electric motor with a maximum output of up to 48hp/36kw (measured at the motor test port).
MX1 – An electric motor with a maximum output of up to 60hp/45kw (measured at the motor test port).
Open Class (adult) – An electric motor with a maximum output of up to 60hp/45kw (measured at the motor test port).
Charging Area ; A separate charging area should be provided and controlled to allow safe charging of electric machines; it is not permitted to charge machines in the general paddock area.
Guess those tracks better get busy on the designated charging areas .. if they don't get them in place prior, according to the rules one cannot charge their bikes.
I'd imagine a Stark factory effort would have them just swapping batteries between Moto's.

Schedule ;
19th March - Preston Docks*
2nd April - Canada Heights*
23rd April - Foxhill*
14th May - TBC*
28th May - Blaxhall*
17th & 18th June - TBC*
29th & 30th July - Whitby*
9th & 10th September - Oxford Moto Parc*

Finally we'll get to see how an E-bike stacks up to conventional machines in real competition.
The MX championships will also be a stern test of the bike in varying conditions, much will be learned that doesnt make itself apparent during development testing.
Assuming Stark is going to fully pursue this - wonder who the rider(s) would be ?
Will some rounds be televised or on YouTube ?

Hell yes - line 'em up.

 

[Fog 25]

One more restriction Stark will have a Hp lock on for the weekend.
Manufacturer specific information
Stark
Stark machines have a feature that enables a technical official to ‘Lock’ the machine at a set power output for a set duration of time, this cannot be disabled or overcome during the pre-set duration of the ‘lock-out’. When presented to technical control, the machine will be locked in to ‘Race Weekend’ mode at the maximum output for the class entered by a technical official, this will be set for the duration of the event entered. This may be used as the official method of power output verification only if locked by technical officials.

 

[Number Six]

Password protected peak power output ! Thats a new twist.

 

[SHSMITH76]

This is great news, but I think Stark will just concentrate on getting bikes into production and sold before they take this on. I hope I am wrong but I just think March is too soon for them. Just my 2 cents, but what do I know.

 

[Philip]

Bwa-ha-ha-ha! Stark will de-tune their bikes to 48 and 60hp, cranking up the torque to numbers that are unseen by the industry. Electronic traction, launch, and wheelie control, and no ICE bike will stand a chance against them.

I am afraid that they might become too successful in Europe and scare the AMA.

 

[Number Six]

In that case, Stark might do well to put mid-pack level riders on the bike(s) for the British championships as a bigger picture strategy.

 

[happyinmotion]

I'm reading that as "this race series allows electric bikes to compete" and not as "Stark will compete in this race series".

Have Stark said anything about whether they'll enter?

 

[Number Six]

The annoucement came as part of the bi-monthly Stark newsletter ;

​ The ACU; the internationally recognized National Governing Body for motorcycle sport in the UK allows The VARG to compete against combustion bikes.

​ An exciting new chapter for Stark Future and the motorcycle industry´s journey to sustainability.

So .. not definitive as in ; ' shit yeah, we're going racing "
Stark has however stated previously that in order to prove the relative competitiveness ( superiority ? ) of the Varg, racing in a well regarded series is key as proof-of-concept.
Could be that the UK MX series timeline is, similar to the initial promises regarding customer order delivery ; a bit over ambitious.
Sure hope they can pull it of & be on the grid in March though it's pretty apparent Stark has lots of spinning plates on sticks to tend to currently, we'll see.
.

 

[Philip]

No other e-bike maker except for Stark can really take advantage of this opportunity in the UK racing rules. No pro will go race an e-bike without factory support, and definitely no privateer. So... Stark has to do it! Either this year or next, but they must! Either a factory team this year or at least a privateer support program next year.

 

[Chadx]

My take on it is I really dislike that they are allowing/lumping electric in with ICE. Lumping 4strokes in the same class with 2strokes was a mistake as will be lumping electric in with 4strokes. Electric should have their own class and so only complete, for finishing place, against other electric; not against ICE.

As things get started, yes, run the electric class entrants in the same races as the the ICE class entrants but finish-places should still be split into an EV class and ICE class. Running multiple classes in the same races will work in the beginning since there won't be enough electric riders to fill their own races. Plus, everyone wants to see how the electric stack up against the ICE. But once the newness of that comparison wears off, I want to see electric-only races and ICE-only races.

Picking an arbitrary peak hp limit will work about as good as picking an arbitrary engine displacement limit (cc limit) for 4 strokes to compete with 2 strokes. Meaning, it's a bad idea. There is a lot more to racing that peak hp and if EV bikes outcompete all ICE bikes, yet they are both lumped into the same class, then racers will have no choice but to change to electric. This is similar to how switching from 2 stroke to 4 stroke was forced just to stay competitive in the class. That would be a shame.

I hope the USA and other countries allow EV bikes, but create their own separate class and do NOT lump them into the ICE class; There should be an ICE class winner and an EV class winner.

 

[Number Six]

.. then racers will have no choice but to change to electric. This is similar to how switching from 2 stroke to 4 stroke was forced just to stay competitive in the class. That would be a shame.

It's True that the evolution to 4 strokes was one of necessity to be competitive.
If it were to occur ; A sea change back to electric would be similar as moving back to two strokes ; less maintenance, less $$ to run a program, FAR quieter & more easily adaptable to varying track configurations via an abundance of torque & limitless mapping options.

Competitive advantages have moved the industry forward throughout Moto-history.
Long travel suspension
Weight reduction
Disc brakes
Water cooling
Power valve apparatus
electric start
fuel injection
& so on ...

Imagine if there had been separate classes for all those innovations at the time because they were deemed superior to the current hardware.

Would much prefer that electric bikes not be segregated, line 'em up & let the chips fall where they may, if that results in an electric movement - so be it.
Such is the nature of competitive motorsports IMO.
..

 

[Philip]

Remember how the 4-strokes were first arbitrarily limited to 426cc? Then they were granted 24cc more. Then the 4-strokes became too dominant. Then the 2-strokes were virtually banned.

That's the way the electrics are going to displace the 4-strokes.

 

[Chadx]

Remember how the 4-strokes were first arbitrarily limited to 426cc? Then they were granted 24cc more. Then the 4-strokes became too dominant. Then the 2-strokes were virtually banned.

That's the way the electrics are going to displace the 4-strokes.

And that is what we should NOT want, in my opinion. I don't want to misunderstand what you are saying, but it sounds like you think it was a good thing two-strokes went away. If I interpreted that correctly, why was that good?

Your description outlines very well how the governing bodies failed to have the insight to created a level playing field, changing the rules without fully understanding impacts or tech advancement potential, etc. I'm not confident that they learned from those mistakes. In my opinion, an entirely different drivetrain is very different than advancements to ancillary systems mentioned by @Number Six (better suspension, fuel injection, etc.) I don't think there is any benefit of killing off ICE tech by allowing very different bikes into that class. Why not just add another series or class rather than combining two very different setups? If interest in ICE class dies out long term (ICE), so be it, but that should not be because bikes of two very different designs were allowed in the same class. At least Formula 1 got it right with Formula E being an entirely separate series. Hopefully the majority of motocross governing bodies around the world will do the same.

 

[Philip]

And that is what we should NOT want, in my opinion. I don't want to misunderstand what you are saying, but it sounds like you think it was a good thing two-strokes went away. If I interpreted that correctly, why was that good?

I like 2-strokes and I like ICE bikes. I do not want them to go away and stop racing, but in all likelihood this is what is going to happen sooner or later.

 

[Chadx]

I like 2-strokes and I like ICE bikes. I do not want them to go away and stop racing, but in all likelihood this is what is going to happen sooner or later.

10-4. Thanks for clarifying. I, too, like and ride both ICE and electric and hope both are around for a long time (even though I prefer electric and, as their capabilities increase, find myself grabbing my electric bikes more and more). I just don't like the idea of governing bodies lumping very different types of bikes together into one class because that will likely lead to the disappearance of the ICE bikes in that class and force the hand of the riders if they want to stay competitive...which they do because, they are racers.

If they kept ICE and electric split into two classes, riders still might very well migrate to the EV class after they ride them and for all the reason that those of us that ride EV like them; performance, riding feel, low cost of ownership (no oil/oil filters, air filters, spark plugs, top ends, bottom ends, etc.) and no time spent doing that maintenance, lack of noise, etc. But at least that is an organic move due to rider preference rather than due to an arbitrary decision that lumped two very different types of bikes together in the same class.

 

[Number Six]

The whole point of the Stark Future project is as proof-of-concept that the Varg is superior to current gas powered technology, Stark has stated that on several occasions.
Even though that idea is threatening to some - I'd hate to see them denied the opportunity to prove it on the track.
Governing bodies have the option of outlawing something if deemed 'too good' as was done with various moto GP innovations, Mercedes variable camber steering & Andy Granatelli's STP turbine Indy car.

Doubt very much that the guy finishing 12th on a Saturday night is suddenly going to be a podium finisher because he's riding a Stark Varg.
Although, given the right unfortunate circumstances it might lend a whole new meaning to the phrase 'light the candles'
.

 

[Chadx]

...Id hate to see them denied the opportunity to prove it on the track.

That could easily occur even if there were two classes if, as I suggested, the two classes run in the same races until there are enough riders for the classes to have their own separate races. And even if separare races, lap times would also give that data (meanimg, which class has the faster lap times at a given track on the same night). Lumping them into the same class is not necessary in either case.

 

[Philip]

I am afraid there will be low interest among the OEMs to make competitive electric dirt bikes if they are put in a "support class" and are not allowed to compete at the top level.

 

[F451]

I think its going to be a confusing mess of contradictory regulations put in place at the local, national (USA), and international level, until the battery/controller/weight technology improves to the point where it makes no sense to be riding anything but an e-dirt bike if you want to be competitive at any level.

I'm predicting ~10 years before we've completely transitioned to e-dirt bikes being the dominant technology at basically every level, maybe longer depending on how things go (how fast will the technology advance, how much resistance will the OEM's, sanctioning bodies, general public, etc, put up).

The next few years will be very interesting.

And related, the hate for e-dirt bikes is really crazy. If you surf any of the usual dirt bike forums, the constant frothing at the mouth and tin foil conspiracy crap is next level. I don't think that will really affect anything, but there seems to be a fair amount of haters out there. I hope the OEM's (and everyone else) isn't listening to these very vocal people. On the other hand, if the pre-orders for the Stark Varg and sale numbers for bikes like the Sur Ron's are any indicator, seems like there's plenty of sales to be had, if anyone is paying attention (hello OEM's).

 

[rayivers]

I am afraid there will be low interest among the OEMs to make competitive electric dirt bikes if they are put in a "support class" and are not allowed to compete at the top level.

Philip, I'm going to butcher your sentence - sorry

I believe there will be very high interest among the OEMs in making electric dirt bikes seem less competitive, especially if they are kept in a "support class" and not allowed to compete at the top level with the OEM's ICE bikes (which they very much want to keep selling). Just my .02. In the US, the AMA will do as they're told.