Stark Battery Tech Thread

[Karinshi]

@Karinshi : you keep asking if Stark would sell newer batteries for older models...

Yes, I've been thinking that for a while, but it's true that this isn't usually how any brand operates. Personally, I like the idea that if Stark manufactured a battery with the exact same shape but a 10kWh battery we could install it in our first gen EXs, I'd buy it. But reality is different.

What I do believe will become a reality is an EX model with a 10kWh battery in the future; there's no reason not to. In fact, they'll probably wait until they can reach 10kWh, not 9. It's more impactful. I can already see the headline: "The new Varg EX 1.2 with a 10.8kWh battery, redefining the electric world once again."

And then you can prepare yourself to see thousands of secondmarket Vargs

I really believe this will be or at least must be the reality 3 years from now at max

 

[Philip]

Renamed the thread to "Stark Battery Tech Thread" at the request of @Karinshi

 

[Bodo]

..

Stark is partnering with EVE Energy, ...


Mass production should start in 2026.
...

I read that a little differently:

With the partnerships now formalized, EVE will begin preparing for industrial-scale production of the 26120 cell in 2026. Stark aims to integrate the new format into its next-generation on-road motorcycle platforms, further reinforcing its position as the technological frontrunner in the electric motorcycle revolution.

(my highlights)

When EVE begin preparing in 2026, we unlikely will see a Stark Battery with that technology supplied in 2026.

From the second highlight, I guess the cells will be used for the ALI and LO bikes, and probably some Eicher Motors designs in the making. They might even never reach the current MX/EX/SM models, since the packaging space of the current battery in the frame likely won't allow to make full use of the new format advantages.

 

[Beagle]

I read that a little differently:


(my highlights)

When EVE begin preparing in 2026, we unlikely will see a Stark Battery with that technology supplied in 2026.

From the second highlight, I guess the cells will be used for the ALI and LO bikes, and probably some Eicher Motors designs in the making. They might even never reach the current MX/EX/SM models, since the packaging space of the current battery in the frame likely won't allow to make full use of the new format advantages.

Yes the first time we see these new cells should be in a couple of years with Älg release for which target is 300 km range, 10 min fast charging (so new cells and much larger pack).

It would likely be extended later to their entire range so maybe in Varg 2.0 or 3.0.


Disclaimer: I do not own any rights to this screen cap done by @Karinshi

Stark Future’s CEO: How Electric Can Beat Internal Combustion

Stark Future CEO Anton Wass reveals the company’s intention to enter the streetbike market. Will it see the same success as it has had off-road?

www.cycleworld.com

 

[Karinshi]

They might even never reach the current MX/EX/SM models, since the packaging space of the current battery in the frame likely won't allow to make full use of the new format advantages.

Right, but the good news is that logically there will be a 2.0 version of the Varg platform with probably around 10 kWh. Obviously 7.2 kWh won't be the limit forever. All of us want more range with the same weight, and Stark surelly too, the product will become better in all ways.

And yes, i don't think this improvement will come to the Varg platform with 26120 cells, it will most likely happen when the density of the 21700 cells improves significantly due to the form factor.

 

[Beagle]

Right, but the good news is that logically there will be a 2.0 version of the Varg platform with probably around 10 kWh. Obviously 7.2 kWh won't be the limit forever. All of us want more range with the same weight, and Stark surelly too, the product will become better in all ways.

And yes, i don't think this improvement will come to the Varg platform with 26120 cells, it will most likely happen when the density of the 21700 cells improves significantly due to the form factor.

View attachment 15419

No way they go on using 21700 and 26120, logistical and engineering nightmare, plus 26120 is their own design.
There would be no reason for them to commit to 2 different types of cells with different sizes, thermal properties and so on, asking for different kinds of packing.
I think once they'll switch, they'll switch for all future models. And 26120 cells themselves will also improve over time with slight variations in chemical composition.
They would likely make packs of various capacities for various models (don't need the same range, nor is weight such a penalty for all bikes, street, off road...) but the cells inside the packs should be the same.

Could anybody provide battery pack external measurements please? I'd like to know roughly height, width and depth. Flying V shape is a bit funky, with complete measurements I can calculate volume but I'm mostly interested in width (from left to right across the bike), that should be easier to measure. Thanks!

 

[happyinmotion]

Existing battery is about 160 exterior, ignoring the fins. With two 21700 cells, that's 10 mm spare each side for the case, tabs, and separators. Moving from a pair of 21700 to a single 26120 could let Stark shave a bit off that width.

However, it makes for a different change. The current battery is in two halves with the split line in the middle. Single cells could let Stark move the split line to a corner of the battery, ie one side of the battery case is a deep box and the other part of the case is just a lid.

That could be simpler to manufacture at scale - one part would be close to flat. The tradeoff, of course, is that the other part is a deeper box, but the current design already has two pretty deep boxes. Those deep boxes are stiff and must be machined to a tight tolerance. A lid is going to be more flexible so can have lower tolerances. That's much cheaper in production.

Scale is Stark's game - they want to be getting to millions of bikes. So all their design decisions have to be viewed through this lens.

 

[Beagle]

Existing battery is about 160 exterior, ignoring the fins. With two 21700 cells, that's 10 mm spare each side for the case, tabs, and separators. Moving from a pair of 21700 to a single 26120 could let Stark shave a bit off that width.

I didn't realize it was so thin before thinking about 26120, thanks.

This reminds me of a quote from Flux CTO: "Another mistake is thinking that a rolling prototype equals a successful product. Many prototypes are impressive, but they’re built in ways that don’t scale: Materials, suppliers, assembly methods. When it comes time to mass-produce, compromises pile up, and the product delivered to the rider isn’t as expected. Most of the times specs, cost and delivery time disappoints the costumers."

It must be fascinating to design bikes from the ground up with different constraints from gas bikes and to bring them into mass production.

 

[leadingedge]

...each 26120 cell could be connected to the case on both sides, giving a casting modulus of 6.

I was thinking the same thing, but any thoughts on how they would effectively run the connections if both sides of the 26120 would be connected to the case sides?

 

[Beagle]

I was thinking the same thing, but any thoughts on how they would effectively run the connections if both sides of the 26120 would be connected to the case sides?

I guess they could redesign the pack with this in mind and that is why they have conceived longer cells. If connections are made with highly thermally and electrically conductive aluminum, having the cell in direct contact with the case or with a thin aluminum interconnect may still be a significant improvement over the actual pack?

I'm not sure how it looks for the current pack but it doesn't matter much because honestly I'm way out of my depth in there

 

[Karinshi]

Maybe some interesting news about patents for the new battery? The patent dates are very recent

 

[Theo]

Maybe some interesting news about new patents for the new battery? The patent dates are very recent

[...]

Well, the patent file date is from 2022. I think those patents are for what we already have on our Vargs; in case you've never noticed the valve, look between the orange power connector and the bus connector of the battery.

 

[Karinshi]

Well, the patent file date is from 2022. I think those patents are for what we already have on our Vargs; in case you've never noticed the valve, look between the orange power connector and the bus connector of the battery.

Okeym thanks for the info. So it seems that they just got the patent then

 

[Beagle]

That is a good find but not related to recent events.

When you apply for a patent it usually takes a number of years for the Patent Office where you applied (you need to apply in all geographical zones of interest to you : US, Europe, Japan, China, Worldwide...) to decide if there is any merit to your claims (in short: if what you wish to protect deserves a patent, if it's different enough from what already exists, either patented or in the public domain).

I just went to have a look at

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/patent/search?q=%22Stark%20future%22

and

Google Patents

Search and read the full text of patents from around the world with Google Patents, and find prior art in our index of non-patent literature.

patents.google.com

Stark has applied for (submitted a demand) at least 5 patents between 2021 and 2022

Electric motorcycle
Casing for electric battery
Impact protection plate
Chain tensioner device
Valve for battery

Most of which had been granted first in Spain in 2022 then extended to Europe, US and China at various later dates, including 2 patents very recently granted in the US (but filed and granted years ago in Spain):

Casing for battery


and valve for battery


The other 3 are

Chain tensioner


Impact protection plate


The one that stands out a bit is
Electric motorcycle, 2024 (US)

Only applied for in the US, it likely has to do with different intellectual property laws and the opportunity to patent simple designs.