for 5k$ you get 13 kWh @400 wH/kg, though! Cheaper and better than with current liquid electrolyte cells that we all use in our dirtbikes.
I think that if this is true, it's a revolution.
Stark Battery Tech Thread
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I think that if this is true, it's a revolution.
Chaconne
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I have to admit I am pretty psyched if this is real. Remember in 2023 I was saying I thought SS might be closer on motorcycles that imagined and folks around here were convinced automobiles would be first. And SS would be long way off for MCs. What would really be great is if we could upgrade our current Vargs with SS. I would dig up serious cash to do that.
You guys beat me to it 
A relatively unknown brand making bold claims to gain attention is not something exactly new in the electric space
400 Wh/kg solid state battery is exciting. Along other, probably embellished claims (100 000 cycles...), the most important is probably that Donuts lab say that production costs would be lower than traditional Li-ion batteries. That is indeed the real crux of the matter, not the bit about reaching crazy high specs but manufacturing such cells on a large scale at competitive costs.
Anyway, to get some pointers about what it would mean, whenever that happens, let's take the current 7.2 kWh pack, at 265 Wh/kg it's 27.2 kg (in cells).
400 Wh/kg would take a battery of 27.2 kg to a capacity of 10.9 kWh (+3.7 kWh).
Alternatively, such cells would decrease the weight of a 7.2 kWh pack to 18 kg (-9.2 kg).
It's either another cheap PR stunt or someone is gonna get filthy rich, quick!
Now let's dream about that 11 kWh Varg
A relatively unknown brand making bold claims to gain attention is not something exactly new in the electric space
400 Wh/kg solid state battery is exciting. Along other, probably embellished claims (100 000 cycles...), the most important is probably that Donuts lab say that production costs would be lower than traditional Li-ion batteries. That is indeed the real crux of the matter, not the bit about reaching crazy high specs but manufacturing such cells on a large scale at competitive costs.
Anyway, to get some pointers about what it would mean, whenever that happens, let's take the current 7.2 kWh pack, at 265 Wh/kg it's 27.2 kg (in cells).
400 Wh/kg would take a battery of 27.2 kg to a capacity of 10.9 kWh (+3.7 kWh).
Alternatively, such cells would decrease the weight of a 7.2 kWh pack to 18 kg (-9.2 kg).
It's either another cheap PR stunt or someone is gonna get filthy rich, quick!
Now let's dream about that 11 kWh Varg
Chaconne
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Ya and I also get a little wary with the Nvidia like circularity schemes. Donut Labs is Verge is Donut Labs is Verge...You guys beat me to it
A relatively unknown brand making bold claims to gain attention is not something exactly new in the electric space
400 Wh/kg solid state battery is exciting. Along other, probably embellished claims (100 000 cycles...), the most important is probably that Donuts lab say that production costs would be lower than traditional Li-ion batteries. That is indeed the real crux of the matter, not the bit about reaching crazy high specs but manufacturing such cells on a large scale at competitive costs.
Anyway, to get some pointers about what it would mean, whenever that happens, let's take the current 7.2 kWh pack, at 265 Wh/kg it's 27.2 kg (in cells).
400 Wh/kg would take a battery of 27.2 kg to a capacity of 10.9 kWh (+3.7 kWh).
Alternatively, such cells would decrease the weight of a 7.2 kWh pack to 18 kg (-9.2 kg).
It's either another cheap PR stunt or someone is gonna get filthy rich, quick!
Now let's dream about that 11 kWh Varg
those numbers are a dream... the price is a nightmare.This bike absolutely deserves a thread on its own!!!!!
From their site, they say that it costs 33k € -ouch but it's solid state so maybe they can get away with it- and weighs 235 kg. That rear wheel would deserve a thread on its own, too!
Here is the website of the manufacturer of that battery. Some additional information:
• 400 Wh/kg !!!!
• life expectancy 100k cycles !!!!!!!!!
• at subfreezing temperatures and at the water boiling temperature the capacity is 99% !!!
• no risk of fires!!
Unbelievable that giants of EVs haven't introduced this yet, up to some minutes ago I didn't even know who Verge or Donut Lab were!
I'm looking forward to see the first MX bike with this kind of battery!
i think the Varg will be perfect with 10kwh with the same weight, maybe they can archieve it in the future with their new cells they have in development with EVE ENERGY
i think SS is the future, still curious why Anton didnt like it
Ok, the price is very high, but as far as I've understood they are trying to improve World records of distance traveled on a single charge and so they have put a 33 kWh battery there. Probably a 7.2 kWh MX bike would still cost less than 12k € and weigh quite some kg less than 118.
The only thing that they haven't mentioned is the power density, but considiring the charging power of 200 kW I guess that the discharge shouldn't be bad, even for a pack having one fifth of that discharging power.
if SS technology es cheaper then this should be the way to go
i would buy a Varg with 11Kwh SS capacity for 15k€ no problem
Just a reminder Stark continues to invest heavily in lithium with its partnership with Eve Energy and the new cylindrical cells. They just invested in it and are in the middle of developing these cells, yet they haven't opted for solid-state technology for future ALG model, etc.
Could this be a colossal mistake? And it seems they are superior in practically every other aspect. For Anton, the key to the advancement in lithium lies in the separator.
i would buy a Varg with 11Kwh SS capacity for 15k€ no problem
Just a reminder Stark continues to invest heavily in lithium with its partnership with Eve Energy and the new cylindrical cells. They just invested in it and are in the middle of developing these cells, yet they haven't opted for solid-state technology for future ALG model, etc.
Could this be a colossal mistake? And it seems they are superior in practically every other aspect. For Anton, the key to the advancement in lithium lies in the separator.
Chaconne
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I would spend for sure. I hate liquid electrolyte, it is like medieval tech to me. Solid state would truly be mind changing and truly a revolution. And with increased density and lower weight those would just pure bonus as far as I am concerned.
Chaconne
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I would probably go to $20k US for 11-12Kwh SS tomorrow if I could have that no problem. Well it might be that I put off some rehab on this condo. But I would rather die having ridden the future than fix up this place that I am going to give to my son anyway. He can do the rehab if I eat shit big time of my SS 80hp Varg...
I wish Verge and the solid state thing to succeed. At the same time integrating (at least two) new technologies for a startup into a reliable application is an engineering nightmare. Alone that hubless motor bears challenges an established manufacturer would only implement with their best people on a bonkers budget. Yet, the startup hopes to do that alongside industrialising mobile solid state technology while solid state technology is being industrialised..
The boldness is respectable, I hope for the best - but these claims w/ timeline are bolder than anything Stark Future has ever announced. I'll be watching with interest.
The boldness is respectable, I hope for the best - but these claims w/ timeline are bolder than anything Stark Future has ever announced. I'll be watching with interest.
You guys are nuts. 
I'd go for a 5kwh battery that is more compact and lighter with a way higher charging speed in a heartbeat. Small enough to allow for quick swaps maybe, so you have one pack sipping off a generator while you hustle, then pop in, pop packs and keep on cruising on a Varg that is closer to a 500XC W in weight than an anvil...
I'd go for a 5kwh battery that is more compact and lighter with a way higher charging speed in a heartbeat. Small enough to allow for quick swaps maybe, so you have one pack sipping off a generator while you hustle, then pop in, pop packs and keep on cruising on a Varg that is closer to a 500XC W in weight than an anvil...At that energy density, a 5 kWh pack would weight 12.5 kg, saving about 15 kg over current Varg.You guys are nuts.
Still not sure how far away it is but that'll be sweet.
Electric cars and some electric street motorcycles like Zero do offer modular packs, that would be an interesting option for enduro/dual sport. I think the Varg is still at the stage where for most riders it would be more interesting to increase range (for the same weight) than to reduce weight (for the same range). The crossover might be around 9-10 kWh?
You guys are nuts.
Some people prefer smaller swappable batteries, but even in this case, this technology should make them better.
For MX a swapable battery makes more sense to me on the Varg... but for enduro i want more range, i want to explore my surroundings with less range anxiety and i dont want to explore with a +200kg adventure bike.
For supermoto it will be a lot better aswell, not only competitive-wise but street riding too
I think technology is advancing in a way that Stark could offer 2 battery options for all the models... In the Varg, it could be a super-lightweight, interchangeable 5kW battery (the design was supposed to prevent easy battery swapping, but in competitions, Stark is swapping the battery in under a minute with two people... with minor design adjustments, I think it's possible to sell the bike to the public that way).
Another option would be the large 11kWh battery with the same weight as the current one, but of course, with the design concept of a replaceable battery, this one would also have to be replaceable, because I don't think Stark will do two different "mounting" designs; . I don't know, I think there are many options, and the future could be promising and could satisfy everyone if there are several options to choose from.
For supermoto it will be a lot better aswell, not only competitive-wise but street riding too
I think technology is advancing in a way that Stark could offer 2 battery options for all the models... In the Varg, it could be a super-lightweight, interchangeable 5kW battery (the design was supposed to prevent easy battery swapping, but in competitions, Stark is swapping the battery in under a minute with two people... with minor design adjustments, I think it's possible to sell the bike to the public that way).
Another option would be the large 11kWh battery with the same weight as the current one, but of course, with the design concept of a replaceable battery, this one would also have to be replaceable, because I don't think Stark will do two different "mounting" designs; . I don't know, I think there are many options, and the future could be promising and could satisfy everyone if there are several options to choose from.
drehwurm68
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I'm having problems to take a company named "donut" battery for serious - seems like a joke/scam to me. For the video it seems like the exact same location as for the Verge motorcycle, just another guy talking - really doesn't seem legit to me?
Michael
Michael
VERGE and DONUT are working together, they do their own videos at the same place. This is definitely not fake
Chaconne
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Aren't they the same company? AI says Verge owns Donut Lab as a subsidiary.
Chaconne
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Think Tokamak.