2020 Honda CRF 450 Build

Dave Daum

Well-known member
Likes
109
Location
San Diego
you´re welcone, congrats nice work that turned into another awesome bike 👍
how do you like the EBMX thumb throttle?
have you set it up for regen brake?
or E-clutch?
Thus far I love the X-9000. And, I love the thumb regen lever. It is stronger than the rear foot brake. I can skid the rear tire on asphalt with it.

@fmxxx666 your X-9000 settings worked perfect. At 350 amps and 900 phase amps I can barely keep the front wheel on the ground. I can't begin to express my appreciation for your help setting up the controller!
 
Last edited:

fmxxx666

Well-known member
Likes
140
Location
Hamburg Germany
@Dave Daum in case you ever wanna add watercooling let me know, I have a Water Cooling Heatsink for the EBMX X9000 lying around.
Had ordered it beginning of my build when I had no idea yet on the actual temps its generating.
They are pretty hard to come by as they are not officially sold, they are only used by EBMX on their own race bikes for contests, but I talked them into selling me one :p
but yeah my controller never got any hotter yet than 37 degrees C thats 98,6 degrees F so I never installed the watercooling on my controller and I guess watercooling is a bit overkill for the weather here in germany :ROFLMAO:
Unbenannt8.jpg
also have a spare of these CNC EBMX Display Guards.
 

Dave Daum

Well-known member
Likes
109
Location
San Diego
@Dave Daum in case you ever wanna add watercooling let me know, I have a Water Cooling Heatsink for the EBMX X9000 lying around.
Had ordered it beginning of my build when I had no idea yet on the actual temps its generating.
They are pretty hard to come by as they are not officially sold, they are only used by EBMX on their own race bikes for contests, but I talked them into selling me one :p
but yeah my controller never got any hotter yet than 37 degrees C thats 98,6 degrees F so I never installed the watercooling on my controller and I guess watercooling is a bit overkill for the weather here in germany :ROFLMAO:
View attachment 13996
also have a spare of these CNC EBMX Display Guards.
Thank you for your kind offer. I would love the purchase these items from you. Please feel free to email so we can make arrangements.
 

HadesOmega

Well-known member
Likes
206
Location
San Jose
Oh ok watercooling for the controller. I'm more interested in watercooling the motor. I have been able to overheat the QS138 at a supermoto race. The EBMX X-9000 I have NEVER overheated. I think 120F is the most I've gotten it. The QS though will regularly hit 200F when ridden hard. I wish they made a watercooled version of the QS138 70H V3.
 

Dave Daum

Well-known member
Likes
109
Location
San Diego
Oh ok watercooling for the controller. I'm more interested in watercooling the motor. I have been able to overheat the QS138 at a supermoto race. The EBMX X-9000 I have NEVER overheated. I think 120F is the most I've gotten it. The QS though will regularly hit 200F when ridden hard. I wish they made a watercooled version of the QS138 70H V3.
A watercooled QS138 would be very nice. It is conceivable that we could convert a motor to watercooling. Doing so would require designing and fabricating a replacement aluminium motor housing. Any thoughts @DonCox ?

Here is a QS138 90h watercooled motor:


I know that XEMX1.com offers an amazing motor:

 
Last edited:

DonCox

Well-known member
Likes
568
Location
Lake Havasu City, AZ
This all bids more questions??? I have run the QS138 70H V3 motor almost exclusively. With the EM150SP/2 for smaller bikes and lots of EM260SP/2 and EM260S controllers on the full size bikes. I am dabbling with the FarDrivers now, but no real experience yet. I have never overheated the motor. I have been stopped on the track with Controller overheats, I have not been able to recharge the battery because it is overheated (you can look in the BMS), but never the motor. A lot of us have this combo with the same overheating problems. We cool the controller and it all runs, we have made mods to the battery and it all works fine. I am not a pro rider, but I ride the bike pretty hard, many of you have seen some of my YouTubes (Donald Cox KTM) And others have ridden them hard, but no overheated motors. We have had Pro riders push the bikes and no motor overheating.
I know Mark at XEMX1.com quite well, and he is now running the X-9000 controller, and he is overheating the motors with his Pro riders and the rider for Electric Cycle Riders.
You, HadesOmega, have been overheating the motor also with the X-9000 What current are you running HadesOmega? Send us some info? We typically run 300-400A. I have a current line meter on most of the bikes I build, it is not logged, except on my Go Pro. (pic below)
I am not bashing the X-9000, I have heard a lot of good about it, but I know in the FarDriver, you can do some stuff with the phase angles. And I understand that in a 3 Phase motor the phases can fight and cause weird things in the motor, including heat. Also the windings in the motor could be too small for the actual current we are sending, causing heat. But I know Mark at XEMX1 has done extensive testing and engineering on his motors, and cannot get the heat under control yet.
I am sure I have raised more questions, but My next tests are going to be on a QS138 90H V3 watercooled, with a ND961200 controller, watercooled, with a 96V 81AH battery. Let me see where the heat build up is?

Glen Helen 316AMPS.jpg
 

HadesOmega

Well-known member
Likes
206
Location
San Jose
There are 2 situations where I can overheat a motor repeated hillclimbs and supermoto racing. Hillclimbs because you are putting a lot of load and not going that fast. Lugging the motor causes it to overheat and holding the throttle wide open then slowing down and speeding back up again.

At 220F the QS138 will overheat and start pulling power. That's the way EBMX set it I guess the QS138 is more sensitive to heat. My Sur Ron Light Bee has a KO F-Spec motor and it can handle up to 250F before overheating. The only thing you can really do is make your gearing shorter so the motor doesn't work so hard but it'll kill your top speed. It's really annoying the bike just slows down a whole lot. It will start speeding up when you get moving and air cools the motor down. My Redshift has the opposite problem the motor is watercooled so it never overheats but the battery overheats. Also I use a lot of regen that probably is heating up the motor and the battery. Field weakening will also heat the motor up I have mine set to like 70% field weakening.
0329251948a_HDR-XL.jpg
Photo%20May%2027%202018%2C%2011%2004%2016%20PM-XL.jpg

This is that race


When I race supermoto I bring a blower fan with me to cool the motor or battery. Here I'm trying to cool the redshift battery. If it's a hot day it's even worse the motor or battery will overheat even faster.
1116241705b_HDR-XL.jpg
 
Last edited:

HadesOmega

Well-known member
Likes
206
Location
San Jose
I remember I went to an AHRMA race and they have a class called Formula Lightning and it's an all electric class and I talked to this guy that had oil cooled his Zero SR motor. I wish I got a better picture of it. He must have machined some kind of jacket to fit over the motor and pumped oil around the motor. He said it helped the bike run longer without overheating. Energica does the same thing to their motor they oil cooled it. Their newer bikes have watercooling.

In the picture you can see some little red hoses those are cooling the motor.
0208201314_HDR-XL.jpg

I used to have an Empulse TT and that was watercooled also.
0208201242a_HDR-XL.jpg
 

Dave Daum

Well-known member
Likes
109
Location
San Diego
Hi Guys,

I know that in the "heat of the battle," it is hard to keep from using all the power available. @fmxxx666 sent me his X-9000 settings and they work really well. In the upper two power levels, I can barely hold on to the handlebars. The front wheel just doesn't want to stay down.

When I compare the performance/torque of my QS138 V3 against my YZ450 gas bike, the YZ is super slow. My QS138 V3 is putting out 125 lb./ft of torque while my YZ puts out about 33 lb./ft of torque. Power wise, I couldn't be happier. I've found that 350a of current with 900 phase amps at 70% field weakening works great. So far, I've had no heat issues. I'll start posting results as I do more testing. However, I try to keep an eye on my voltage level, amperage draw, and battery/motor/controller temperatures.

Below are the X-9000 settings I'm using from @fmxxx666:

1749670472544.png

1749670414980.png
 
Top Bottom