Alta Plastic Kit

[Jon]

FYI, I was busy over the weekend and didn't get any RFQs out. I'll keep looking into this.

 

[Judaslefourbe]

If it was sourced overseas, a low cavity count, class 5 prototype mold (500-1000 parts) would be well under 10k. Could probably do the whole plastics set for 20k? Just a shot in the dark.

I would be very impressed (and worried) if you were to get those prices.

 

[Jon]

So one factory I've worked with has gotten back to me, and is curious about what specific pieces/parts we want. They would also like samples/CAD before they will quote the molds, but I'll try to get them to commit on a ballpark range.

For specific parts we want to order, my thoughts are:

• Required parts
  • Front fender
  • Shroud RH
  • Shroud LH
  • Rear fender
  • Rear number plate RH
  • Rear number plate LH
• Possible parts
  • Fork guard RH
  • Fork guard LH
  • Front number plate/headlight surround
  • Subframe (!)
  • Rock guard (black part behind subframe)
  • Mud flap

What do you all think of that? Now that I'm actually looking at this list, 30k-50k mold cost seems more likely, but I'll see what I can do. Would any one be interested in a (much) higher price per part to offset mold costs? We could also probably save money by avoiding thru holes on parts and drilling those ourselves as needed.

Also, does anyone have CAD drawings/files for these parts?

 

[Rashid510]

Why do you want the front fender? Its from a Honda....

 

[Judaslefourbe]

Remember also that Trumpf just added a 25% tariff on those puppies...

 

[privateer703]

I wouldn't bother with the front number plate either. I've seen a bunch of different number plates used. Also, isn't the EXR headlight a stock mask?

 

[Rashid510]

I wouldn't bother with the front number plate either. I've seen a bunch of different number plates used. Also, isn't the EXR headlight a stock mask?

Its a Polisport unit you can buy off of Amazon. Number plate is also an OEM Acerbis part. Fork guards are Polisport too (I think we have mentioned this numerous times...) If any quoting is possible it would ideally be for the Alta specific parts.

 

[snydes]

I think the EX/EXR mask is a Polisport Halo. Front fender, number plate and fork guards are all off other OEM’s. Shrouds, side number plates, rear fender and subframe are our problem child’s.

 

[Jon]

Why do you want the front fender? Its from a Honda....

Because I didn't know that... oops!

So it sounds like based on Snydes and the rest of the comments, we need:

• Shroud RH
• Shroud LH
• Rear number plate RH
• Rear number plate LH
• Rear Fender
• Subframe

It's my understanding that the plastic rear sub frame is load bearing, so that is still a big worry in my mind... might leave that off for round 1. The rest of the parts can be single cavity molds running whatever PP/PE blend they have around. I'm hoping for sub 5k mold cost on each of these, but possibly much less if we go with a really low shot-count mold. Last few parts might have some nasty flashing, but you get what you pay for.

I'm unfortunately aware of the tariffs, as they are really killing me in my day job. Will probably have to lay off some people at our US factory due to the massive cost increased for raw material/sub components out of China... that no one makes in the US. For this project, thankfully the tariffs don't apply to the mold costs, just the physical plastic that will be shipped.

Keep the comments coming! This is very helpful.

 

[Judaslefourbe]

My recommendation is for you guys to develop a metal subframe and adapt plastics from another brand

 

[Scott]

My recommendation is for you guys to develop a metal subframe and adapt plastics from another brand

I would go with Honda because of the symmetry of the exhaust. The number plates seem to be a mirror image of each other.

 

[snydes]

It's my understanding that the plastic rear sub frame is load bearing, so that is still a big worry in my mind... might leave that off for round 1.

I would also think the subframe would be crazy expensive to tool up for.

Either way thanks for your efforts here!

 

[Jon]

My recommendation is for you guys to develop a metal subframe and adapt plastics from another brand

This seems like an ideal Plan B... or Plan A.5

I'll chase this custom Chinese injection mold idea to ground, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Slightly off topic: The real question is what do we do in 3-5 years when the battery packs start shitting the bed? I imagine you could tear them down and just replace the 18650's with new ones, but I wonder if there is enough clearance for the extra 4mm diameter and 5mm length of a 21700.

 

[Rashid510]

Slightly off topic: The real question is what do we do in 3-5 years when the battery packs start shitting the bed? I imagine you could tear them down and just replace the 18650's with new ones, but I wonder if there is enough clearance for the extra 4mm diameter and 5mm length of a 21700.

There's a few threads about this in the other sub-forums.

 

[snydes]

Believe me, we’ve been thinking hard about long term battery service. I think we will have options by the time it becomes a real problem IMO. Surprisingly enough it seems this stupid plastic is one of the harder obstacles to overcome right now. It’s ridiculous and sad that the molds are out there not being used but nobody is allowed to do anything with them. What a shame. So much effort put into this bikes design and it’s now locked up in IP ownership BS.

 

[Jon]

Believe me, we’ve been thinking hard about long term battery service. I think we will have options by the time it becomes a real problem IMO. Surprisingly enough it seems this stupid plastic is one of the harder obstacles to overcome right now. It’s ridiculous and sad that the molds are out there not being used but nobody is allowed to do anything with them. What a shame. So much effort put into this bikes design and it’s now locked up in IP ownership BS.

Do we know where the old molds are physically located? If we could buy back molds, it would be pretty easy to get a local injection shop to run them. In terms of cost, I'm sure the molds were 100's of thousands of dollars, but maybe for pennies on the dollar we could make something happen. It all depends on who owns them.

 

[snydes]

I believe they are in France at Acerbis headquarters... I thought that’s what was stated in another discussion. I think there may be some dialogue going on currently in that area initiated by @Alta05 .

 

[Judaslefourbe]

I believe they are in France at Acerbis headquarters

Italy you mean.

 

[snydes]

My bad!

 

[Judaslefourbe]

The real question is what do we do in 3-5 years when the battery packs start shitting the bed?

You mean what will we do after having ridden the bikes for hundreds of hours exceeding the usual useful life of a dirtbike by far?
We'll buy the next generation.