Anti-Theft?!

[Jocke_D]

Wanted to share what I _know_ about this topic after having the bike almost three months now.

The phone is in no way needed to operate the bike!
Lots of people have removed the cradle and mounting bar pads instead. Keeping the phone in a back pack or jacket pocket or back at home or in the van is possible. You won't get to see SOC or what map you are into but that's it.

The VCU has it's own data sim card!
This means Stark can remotely control every bike if it's in 4G range (they have done so in my garage). This also means they can shut it down if reported stolen. Don't know if it also has a GPS onboard though.

 

[Foss]

Wanted to share what I _know_ about this topic after having the bike almost three months now.

The phone is in no way needed to operate the bike!
Lots of people have removed the cradle and mounting bar pads instead. Keeping the phone in a back pack or jacket pocket or back at home or in the van is possible. You won't get to see SOC or what map you are into but that's it.

The VCU has it's own data sim card!
This means Stark can remotely control every bike if it's in 4G range (they have done so in my garage). This also means they can shut it down if reported stolen. Don't know if it also has a GPS onboard though.

Who’s paying the monthly bill for these double SIM cards lolol?!

 

[Jocke_D]

Who’s paying the monthly bill for these double SIM cards lolol?!

Well, the obvious answer is Stark I guess
At least I'm not getting any bills.

 

[Foss]

Well, the obvious answer is Stark I guess
At least I'm not getting any bills.

On their website they actually state the first month of premium service is free, then we have to pay for it. But I have no idea where I’d process the subscription on the app which they state on their web page lol. And if I choose to use a different provider do I need to pull the VCU to put in the new SIM?

 

[Jocke_D]

On their website they actually state the first month of premium service is free, then we have to pay for it. But I have no idea where I’d process the subscription on the app which they state on their web page lol. And if I choose to use a different provider do I need to pull the VCU to put in the new SIM?

I guess thay are talking about specific functions in the app. Not the connection itself. Basic functions in the app will be free.
Hopefully they will leave these subscription ideas behind altogether. Like BMW and their heated seats subscription....

 

[rayivers]

So... I'm guessing this motorcycle will likely spend every waking (& 'sleeping'?) second seeking out every cell tower/hotspot/home network/wardriver within range, no doubt generating/storing? plenty of metadata/error codes/spurious BS in the process. Surely this is of great benefit to someone, I doubt it's me though.

 

[Foss]

So... I'm guessing this motorcycle will likely spend every waking (& 'sleeping'?) second seeking out every cell tower/hotspot/home network/wardriver within range, no doubt generating/storing? plenty of metadata/error codes/spurious BS in the process. Surely this is of great benefit to someone, I doubt it's me though.

Right, and with data logging which does not have a direct feed will buffer or cache large logging depending on the policy. Which will consume resources and create more overhead in communication. I still believe there is only one SIM card, but I won’t know until I open up the VCU.

The logic in creating a proximity device is very simple. If the registered HWID of the paired device communicates with the bike in range, allow access. Retain access if communication is loss as long as steady throttle is applied within a threshold of 60s (prevents anomalies like dead phone, communication disruptions, lost phone during riding…etc). If any conditions fall outside the scope, revoke authentication to ignition; in this case on/off switch.

 

[Philip]

I am guessing, without active SIM cards, the bike would still be connected if the phone is connected to your home Wi-Fi network.

 

[fsfs]

I am guessing, without active SIM cards, the bike would still be connected if the phone is connected to your home Wi-Fi network.

Having written the code for this it is really amusing reading this thread. Let's just say most of the guesses are quite poor and some a bit paranoid. Oh well, to be expected.

 

[rayivers]

Having written the code for this it is really amusing reading this thread. Let's just say most of the guesses are quite poor and some a bit paranoid. Oh well, to be expected.

Please, enlighten us! (no sarcasm, just a very real need-to-know). My concern is simple: can any Varg drive functions (on/off etc.) be controlled wirelessly? On my 3 other electric bikes they can not.

 

[Jocke_D]

Please, enlighten us! (no sarcasm, just a very real need-to-know). My concern is simple: can any Varg drive functions (on/off etc.) be controlled wirelessly? On my 3 other electric bikes they can not.

First. The phone has nothing to do with it
Like I mentioned before, the VCU has its own data sim. So yes - they can be controlled remotely, I've seen it happen in my own garage.

I'm sure they have implemented some sort of safety protocol meaning something like Stark can not control a bike that is running/rolling or something like that. Probably also have limitations regarding how much throttle they can apply etc.

I develop software for remotely operated machines. Longest distance was a drilling rig (weighs some 60tons) in Texas from Sweden. Really cool stuff. Would love to have a look around the Varg code - could you hook me up @fsfs

 

[Philip]

Having written the code for this it is really amusing reading this thread. Let's just say most of the guesses are quite poor and some a bit paranoid. Oh well, to be expected.

Glad you are having fun! Could you perhaps share with us the Stark Varg anti-theft strategy in a way that attracts buyers and detracts thiefs?

 

[ReVolter]

I hope the measures are like Amazon, provide a police report and we send you a new bike lol. Then I have no issues with all of this and I can get off my soap box.

Not sure what “measures” they can do if the bike doesn’t have a direct signal to the internet. The phone would have to be attached to the bike with an active SIM to be able to push or pull any data.

In the meantime, I took the whole body off and wedged an AirTag in the cushion of the seat. There is a large enough opening where the body locks on the pegs to the frame. Now I can sleep a little better at night if and when I go on vacation.

FWIW, in no way am I trying to bash Stark Future, I just want to make it better. An owner should be able to park his bike at the track, walk away for food or bio and walk back knowing his property hasn’t been tampered with.

My Varg phone comes with a data-only SIM card, so it looks like there is come connectivity. I don't know how the subscription is being paid for, but maybe I'll find out if it expires. Maybe it uses this data connection for updates and registration?

 

[ReVolter]

Having written the code for this it is really amusing reading this thread. Let's just say most of the guesses are quite poor and some a bit paranoid. Oh well, to be expected.

I was told that some sort of disable/ant-theft feature is in the works. Is this true?

 

[mike61]

I put an airtag in!
Maybe it will help a bit!

 

[Foss]

At this point I am more concerned about parental safety over antitheft. This bike is like a weapon and has no safety for the trigger.

 

[rayivers]

As an experiment, has anyone tried shielding the VCU / internal SIM card? Copper foil or even plain old aluminum foil should significantly reduce 4G/5G signal levels if properly installed.

 

[Swank171]

As an experiment, has anyone tried shielding the VCU / internal SIM card? Copper foil or even plain old aluminum foil should significantly reduce 4G/5G signal levels if properly installed.

I’d like to know how the bike operates without sim in VCU or if it can be removed?

Call me paranoid but I’d like to be able to go off grid….dont really need the ultra grid connected find every tower device. I’m pretty basic.

Anyone crack into this thing yet?

 

[Andreas]

You'll have to ask Elon Musk. It even has cameras built in, the GPS alone is boring. But there are people who buy it without knowing it. I don't know why.

It was a joke. We can't change it, and we're all becoming a bit more transparent. That's not a problem for me. That's the price for the many other advantages in life compared to 1873. Just one horsepower is boring.

 

[Swank171]

You'll have to ask Elon Musk. It even has cameras built in, the GPS alone is boring. But there are people who buy it without knowing it. I don't know why.

It was a joke. We can't change it, and we're all becoming a bit more transparent. That's not a problem for me. That's the price for the many other advantages in life compared to 1873. Just one horsepower is boring.

I’m not so easily accepting of stuff like that….also not sure what any of this means….a 2 stroke has more than 1 hp. As does an alta. How you have to choose between a horse or every breath being monitored with no middle Ground makes no sense. There were no years between 1873 and 2024…? Not sure I understand your logic….seems more like a coping mechanism to down play anyone concerned with where this could take us.

I was asking if anyone has opened the VCU up and experimented with bike operation outside of 4g connection.

Thanks for the “just lay down and take it…its easier that way…”speech hahah I feel a lot stronger now

When you start having days you aren’t allowed to drive so your electric car is shut down or your dirt bike won’t work unless in “designated area” you’ll prob still have some funny jokes!