Bonnell 40hp and 60hp dirt bikes and e-bikes

[Beagle]

I think the problem for them will be finding something that really out performs or out prices or has much better proven reliability than the Varg. If they are just equivalent many customers will be wary of being a test guinea pig all over again as a lot of that has been done for the Varg at this point. Personally I waited for the Varg since I don't have a lot of disposable income to lose

Not all markets are growing either the US market with tariffs and general disinterest in motorcycles probably won't have the growth once hoped for.

You're right, their strategy might be based not so much on differentiating specs but on sticker price.

And then I can imagine that the real war between manufacturers will be about software, algorithm, ease of use and tuning (once the gold run about better cells and higher capacity calms down, even though they'll mostly use commercial cells anyway).

About reliability, I'm sure that would be a big factor driving sales for the big OEMs (Yamaha, Honda, KTM...) whenever they release their first competitive electric bike.

 

[Erwin P]

No the higher voltage up to some point is more killing. As soon as you get past a certain treshhold the amount of voltage hardly matters anymore until you get into arc flash territory.

You seem to miss the point of the human body being a resistor. The current a battery can deliver is not perse the current that will go through the system (in this case the human being shorted). Current can't go higher than Voltage / resistance and in the human case that resistance is quite a lott. I have no issue touching a 12V 400Ah battery for minutes. I do have an issue with touching a 400V 1Ah for more than 1s though.

400V/100.000 ohm (human body) is 0,004A, that would lead to death in just over a second.
I used your data sheet for that just for entertainment/education purposes, the real number is something different but you get the picture.

 

[Kurlon]

Another thing to consider with voltage: The higher the voltage, the wider of a gap it can jump. As voltage climbs, you need to start increasing separation between tracks on boards / etc to keep it from arcing out internally.

 

[Beagle]

No the higher voltage up to some point is more killing. As soon as you get past a certain treshhold the amount of voltage hardly matters anymore until you get into arc flash territory.

You seem to miss the point of the human body being a resistor. The current a battery can deliver is not perse the current that will go through the system (in this case the human being shorted). Current can't go higher than Voltage / resistance and in the human case that resistance is quite a lott. I have no issue touching a 12V 400Ah battery for minutes. I do have an issue with touching a 400V 1Ah for more than 1s though.

400V/100.000 ohm (human body) is 0,004A, that would lead to death in just over a second.
I used your data sheet for that just for entertainment/education purposes, the real number is something different but you get the picture.

Think I got it now!

Between a 100 V and 400 V batteries, current that would go through dry skin would be around 1 mA and 4 mA, it does not seem that much of a difference but indeed, there is a regulatory safety threshold generally established at 120 V DC for ultra low voltage (under which no significant damage would occur for 3 s).
So that's another reason for some manufacturers to stay below 120 V.

After that, low voltage upper limit is 1500 V DC.

 

[Theo]

"Insulator" is a relative word, since, beyond a certain voltage, basically everything becomes a conductor, even air if the voltage exceeds 3kV/mm, and then you get an arc (like it could happen in an inverter with too close cables, for example) or a lightning in the sky. The same concept holds good for the skin.
For a 360 V Varg Alpha, the maximum current should be almost 200 A (just do 59 kW/360V) and at 90 V the same power will be achieved with a 4-fold higher current. AFAIK, both combinations would be deadly for a human body.
AC apparently is more dangerous and something to consider is that an AC voltage is stated as the RMS value, which is 1.4 times (more precisely, √2) smaller than the peak value: a 230V AC current actually has a voltage that keeps oscillating between -326 V and 326V.

 

[Chaconne]

"Insulator" is a relative word, since, beyond a certain voltage, basically everything becomes a conductor, even air if the voltage exceeds 3kV/mm, and then you get an arc (like it could happen in an inverter with too close cables, for example) or a lightning in the sky. The same concept holds good for the skin.
For a 360 V Varg Alpha, the maximum current should be almost 200 A (just do 59 kW/360V) and at 90 V the same power will be achieved with a 4-fold higher current. AFAIK, both combinations would be deadly for a human body.
AC apparently is more dangerous and something to consider is that an AC voltage is stated as the RMS value, which is 1.4 times (more precisely, √2) smaller than the peak value: a 230V AC current actually has a voltage that keeps oscillating between -326 V and 326V.

Yes everything is a semi-conductor at some point. Some materials are just better at it than others.