Interest poll: What kind of charger would get your money on the table?

[Erwin P]

I'm not a producer or developer of any kind. Just curious what kind of charger would get you to put your money on the table.

Stark business model has the issue of selling once and not needing spareparts for a long time. Hence the subscription model and the clothes.
Both are not really my cup of tea, but i have money to spend and would very much like charging options for the bike other than the 3300W piece of @#$% centerstand that's too heavy to carry from and to the van every time, but actually isn't all that fast either.

- An onboard 1000-2000W charger would be nice. Some time ago i rode the Arctic Leopard EXE 880. Not as premium as the Stark, BUT it had the option to take the 1800W charger with it under the seat. Making it an option as combined Enduro AND commuter for me. Wich is making it a lott easier to spend money on it. The Stark EX isn't wich is a shame.
Charging will be slow, but will beat pushing.
If onboard addaption is too hard, maybe even a decent size that will fit in a backback without being all too heavy will do.

- An onboard DC charger shoudn't take too much room and weight and will have the bike charged in minutes. However charging options are way more limited.

- An additional fast charger of 11kW or more (in Europe 11kW Menekes is the norm) would make it possible to charge rapidly at places you often visit and allong the track. In my 2 hour races i charge in between after an hour after wich i have to ride half an hour (3 laps) on the ICE). Charging at over 3x the speed just 1 lap might do.

- Do you have any other ideas? Let us know in the comments.

 

[Theo]

I agree about the fact that there should be an onboard charger for the EX.

For the MX, A. Wass said that the battery could safely be charged at at least twice the speed, so let's say 7 kw. I would be interested in some kind of fast charger but only provided it can be used at the track: as of now, I don't know whether more than 3.5 kw are available in the parking lots of the local tracks.

I personally would like to have some kind of Stark Future made power station and I would like it like this:
• it should be able to take advangtage of the charging capability of the battery: apparently, roguhly 7 kw,
• there should be a charging cable that can be connected directly to the bike just like the charger that we have currently,
• it should be adjustable via the phone just like the charger that we have currently,
• there should be a function that keeps the battery/inverter or whatever can overheat during the fast charging below a certain temperature by limiting the charging power automatically,
• there should also be some other regular sockets to power other stuff like a phone,
• it should be transportable without much effort, for example it could be made of many modules weighing like 10 kg each or it should have some kind of lifting syustem;
• it should be rechargeable while it delivers power to the bike, so that even if at the track they can only provide you with 1 kw, for example, the power station is always under charge, both while you are riding and while you are recharging.

 

[Erwin P]

Good idea, although the ''charging station'' battery's would surpas my max price i guess. But if say it's a 2-3kW package just to buffer the thing could be kind of affordable. However that way you end up with 2 DC-AC AC-DC converters wich will also increase the price.
If it can charge with say 3,5kW from a household socket that would be a nice buffer to charge fast with only a small generator/power supply.

As for bigger power supply without battery's, a lott of people would just buy a bigger generator. Now everyone uses 3,5-4kW generators to charge it because that's max, but if 7kW charging would become the norm i could see the 8kW generators incomming. Wich are not even that much bigger and not louder.

 

[DaveAusNor]

New business model for stark. Install Stark brand fast chargers at MX tracks, like Tesla did with its supercharger network. Then sell electricity at a mark up. They'll pay for their chargers after a while and then the rest will be profit. Partner with the track and split the profits might be another business model if the track wants to invest in the charger install. loads of options etc.

 

[Erwin P]

The problem would be getting that kind of currents to the tracks though. Most are just big households. If you want to charge 5 Starks you're allready way beyond what the cables in the ground are up for.

I think it will remain generators for some time. Wich are still way quieter and using way less fuel than ICE bikes.

We do however have some guys here that have big battery's in their trailer and solar panels. Those guys could end up being suppliers.

 

[DaveAusNor]

The problem would be getting that kind of currents to the tracks though. Most are just big households. If you want to charge 5 Starks you're allready way beyond what the cables in the ground are up for.

I think it will remain generators for some time. Wich are still way quieter and using way less fuel than ICE bikes.

We do however have some guys here that have big battery's in their trailer and solar panels. Those guys could end up being suppliers.

There are 3 phase 480V connections you can get in North America. 400V 3 phase here in Europe. That's what all the EV chargers are connected too. 5 chargers at a track would not be a problem.

 

[OpaTsupa]

An onboard charger must be made by Stark, and it will not be compatible with any of the past and present models.
What would be weight and bulk penalties? Even 1-2m of thick cable will be bulky. I don't see where they could fit it all in present bike configuration.
Let's guess at 5kg weight. That would be a bit much for my taste.

If it would raise the price 500-1000eur then I would sooner get a generator that will also be useful elsewhere.

For Enduro, point to point charging in the wild isn't that realistic.
In my case I would need to circle back to the van (left at the end of the mountain road), load the bike and then search for a 220V outlet.

Yes, an onboard charger would be nice to have if price, bulk and weigh could be kept low.
A small 1-2kg charger that could fit in a backpack would get my vote.

 

[Erwin P]

The connectors are not the issue.
It's they wires in the ground.
At our most local small track we have 1 fase 16A.

 

[Erwin P]

An onboard charger must be made by Stark, and it will not be compatible with any of the past and present models.
What would be weight and bulk penalties? Even 1-2m of thick cable will be bulky. I don't see where they could fit it all in present bike configuration.
Let's guess 5kg weight would be a bit much for my taste.

If it would raise the price 500-1000eur then I would sooner get a generator that will also be useful elsewhere.

For Enduro, point to point charging in the wild isn't that realistic.
In my case I would need to circle back to the van (left at the end of the mountain road), load the bike and search for 220V outlet.

Yes, an onboard charger would be nice to have if price, bulk and weigh could be kept low.
A small 1-2kg charger that could fit in a backpack would get my vote.

I guess all chargers must be made by Stark because of it working with the app. But not an expert on that. Also warranty might be a thing here.

I've seen and felt the 1800W charger of the Arctic Leopard and that was well below 5kg. With a slightly different form factor i guess you could place that between the battery and the frame. It's cable is just thin. And that is a charger to take with you on the bike, not even integrated.
Nice option would it being easily taken out and in. 5-10 minutes of wrenching to have it out for weight savings or in for charge options.

A generator is very useful, but not when you're not near your van. In Spain and the Balkans we did ride days where at least once a day we ended up at a restaurant and we easily spent an hour there. In the evening probably even more before we would ride back to camp. I guess this holds true for most of Europe.
Backpack might be an possibility, but i take a 5kg bike penalty over anything pointy in my backpack.
It would also transform the EX into a usable road/cmmuter bike.

 

[DaveAusNor]

An onboard charger must be made by Stark, and it will not be compatible with any of the past and present models.
What would be weight and bulk penalties? Even 1-2m of thick cable will be bulky. I don't see where they could fit it all in present bike configuration.
Let's guess at 5kg weight. That would be a bit much for my taste.

If it would raise the price 500-1000eur then I would sooner get a generator that will also be useful elsewhere.

For Enduro, point to point charging in the wild isn't that realistic.
In my case I would need to circle back to the van (left at the end of the mountain road), load the bike and then search for a 220V outlet.

Yes, an onboard charger would be nice to have if price, bulk and weigh could be kept low.
A small 1-2kg charger that could fit in a backpack would get my vote.

you wouldn't need an onboard charger. regular home chargers use the onboard chargers like the 11kW charger of a tesla, but superchargers bypass the onboard charger. and you wouldnt have to carry a cable, the chargers have them.

the stark would just need something like this to use the current network of superchargers

 

[DaveAusNor]

The connectors are not the issue.
It's they wires in the ground.
At our most local small track we have 1 fase 16A.

1 phase 16A is a single course for powerpoints, lighting etc. The grid connection for a standard home in most places in Europe would be higher amps. I just looked up for the netherlands and found this:

Standard Connection (1-phase)​

• Voltage: 230V
• Current: 25A, 35A, or 40A (most common: 35A)
• Power Capacity: Usually 5.75 kW (25A), 8.05 kW (35A), or 9.2 kW (40A)

Three-Phase Connection (For Larger Homes)​

• Voltage: 3 × 230V or 400V (star connection with neutral)
• Current: Commonly 3 × 25A or higher
• Power Capacity:
  • 3 × 25A → 17.25 kW
  • 3 × 35A → 24.15 kW
  • 3 × 40A → 27.6 kW

The best case scenario the track would already have a 3 phase connection, then a couple of stark brand 7kw chargers would be fine. Anyway its just a possible new business model for tracks and or Stark, if we see loads of electric bikes at track im sure upgrading their grid connection could be a valid business case.

 

[varg_reiter]

My Stark EX will be delivered next week, and the first project I’ll be tackling is the charger.
My plan is to build a small protective case for the original charger made of forged carbon. This way, I could recharge the battery during lunch breaks at restaurants or at e-bike charging stations.

Can anyone tell me how much the original charger weighs without the housing?

 

[DaveAusNor]

My Stark EX will be delivered next week, and the first project I’ll be tackling is the charger.
My plan is to build a small protective case for the original charger made of forged carbon. This way, I could recharge the battery during lunch breaks at restaurants or at e-bike charging stations.

Can anyone tell me how much the original charger weighs without the housing?

There's a few charger threads here, pretty sure someone has written some weights in. I'll see if I can find the post later and trying and link it.
I can't figure out the link thing, but there is a post saying 20 pounds including a pelican case which is about 6. Therefore the charger should weight 14 pounds itself or about 6.5kg. There's dimensions in another thread too.

 

[Dirt-E]

I think if Stark had any brains in their collective heads, they would figure out a way to include public charging capability to the EX models.

I've touted this many times since getting my Alta EXR (and continue to gripe about it on my Varg) that the single largest reason road electrics are going to fail is their ignorance of public charging.

First, the stations can provide way more energy than the dinky home chargers. Lithium should be able to charge at 3-4C rates without major problems (18-24 minutes empty to full, but at the possible cost of longevity). This means you could stop in for a drink or take a smoke break every 30-40 minutes to top off, then keep riding. That way the diminutive 25 miles of range the bike has now, doubles to 50 miles, and then as many times as you can top off after that until you don't want to ride anymore.

Second, if they can get the connectors on some kind of a standard, then you could use it in the same place as your home EV plug. That's one less barrier to entry and less stuff to worry about. People complain about the stand and I agree. It's a big pain to move around, but it's functional at least. If you had something on board, then that eliminates one set of wires/cable to connect in order to charge. I'm not sure how much a charge circuit might weigh, but hopefully they can reduce the form factor enough to integrate it into the bike, or at least miniaturize it enough to go in a backpack, but still pack enough punch to get the bike charged as quickly as possible.

 

[Erwin P]

I could live with a intgegrated charger of 10kg that's a module you can take out during competition. Maybe even design a bit wider plastics for it to fit.
It's on par with ICE Enduro's for weight, but all the benefits do allow for a 10kg penalty and still be the better bike.

The bike is very narrow and i love that. But being able to add a €150-200 plastic kit and some €800 charger on the bike to make it actually useable for commuting would add a €1000 revenue to them AND might get me to trade my MX for an EX. Adding €16000 to their revenue.

There is a good reason people don't commute on Enduro/SM ICE bikes. High maintenance, loud, aggresive etc etc. But all of that drops on an E bike like the Stark, while you till get all the Hooliganism you could ever want from it.