STARK VARG (Something new is coming!)

[Butch]

As far as I know that bike is now in the hands of our very own @73Thing

That is so cool. I hope through the registry here we can keep track of all the bikes. I dream. A lot.

 

[73Thing]

Ty's bike is still going strong!

 

[Moto Cinch]

latest from RacerX

 

[Chadx]

Not following. This is a very brief overview of what was in the Dec. 14 release. Was that supposed have a link to something? When I click on it, it just opens that image and short paragraph...

 

[Moto Cinch]

Well… forgive me as my email says this is the March 2022 edition of the RacerX mag. I thought this was relevant.

 

[Chadx]

Oh, I follow now. I thought maybe there was a link missing. I misinterpreted "the latest" and thought there was some new news. You were just pointing out they picked up the story and had mentioned the Varg in the new issue. <thumbs up>

 

[leeo45]

Someone has been visiting our forum.

Several of you are quoted in this video.

YouTube: Cross Training Enduro - Stark Varg

 

[Oded]

Actually, the Stark Varg will suit this Australian channel very well. They ride enduro which is not very demending powerwise, as oppose to this forum's vast majority which are motorcross riders.
Enduro and hard enduro just rarely use full throttle. i ride (hard?) enduro only (very similar to what is shown in the video) and can get 4 hours of rocky terrain riding time on my Alta.

 

[privateer703]

So in that video towards the end he says that Varg comes with a 100 program modes, but only if you buy a subscription... does that mean you can't create your own "maps" without the subscription? Just wondering what the base sales price comes with as far as maps and customization.

 

[F451]

Someone has been visiting our forum.

Several of you are quoted in this video.

YouTube: Cross Training Enduro - Stark Varg

So much hand wringing, pearl necklace clutching, and general skepticism about this bike.

I don't get it. It will either be what they say it is, or not. We will know soon enough.

In the meantime, the BIG news about this bike is the amazing response too it in the form of pre-orders. There is clearly a HUGE DEMAND for a bike like this.

The major OEM's should be taking note and increasing their development efforts into e-dirt bikes or they seriously risk being left behind.

 

[Philip]

So in that video towards the end he says that Varg comes with a 100 program modes, but only if you buy a subscription... does that mean you can't create your own "maps" without the subscription? Just wondering what the base sales price comes with as far as maps and customization.

Yeah, there shouldn't have been any mentioning of subscriptions before explaining all the benefits. Let's hope the standard functionality is not too restricted and there are additional benefits to pay for subscriptions. Maybe some data sharing, similar to what LitPro is offering, I dunno. Restricting the number of maps would be more like a source of annoyance for the owners rather than the source of revenue for Stark.

 

[Chadx]

One would hope non-subscription, core features include a minimum of 5 maps since the bike will hold 5 maps at a time. Double that would be better. I can see some power users wanting to have more, but 100 maps is a lot of maps and for the person that wants it all. I haven't seen where the subscription based features vs the included features has been specifically detailed from Stark. I suspect the navigation and some of the competition bases features (air time, lap time, etc.) might be subscription bases where the basic tuning features (power curve, regen curve, flywheel accel., flywheel decel.) are included non-subscription based. Stark may not have made the decision yet. When I have time, I may inquire about the specifics and give my opinion on the minimum that should be included. I submit that everyone should do so and hopefully give them buyer, or potential buyer, feedback on what features being subscription based are palatable and which are not. (Yes, ideally all features would be included, but surely there are a bear minimum that must not be subscription based because they are core to the bike like the four settings mentioned above and a minimum number of maps).

My 2020 YZ450F (converted fulltime to snowbike) lets you create maps in the Yamaha PowerTuner app on your phone or tablet. I don't think there is a limit in how many you can create. And then you connect the app to the bike via wifi communication and upload two maps at a time and flip between the two maps with a single handlebar button (that lights up to show one map is activated and is not lit up when the other map is activated). Works slick. No subscription; it's a free app and feature.

 

[privateer703]

I just saw this video of Josh Hill on the Varg, at 1:45 you can see an Alta on the side.. probably doing some direct comparison testing.
Josh Hill, Lleides

 

[Mark911]

In the meantime, the BIG news about this bike is the amazing response too it in the form of pre-orders. There is clearly a HUGE DEMAND for a bike like this.

As there would be for an auto mfg claiming their new electric car (not yet in production) has the range equivalent of 30 gallons of gas, 1500 HP, laps Nurburgring at a record pace, seats 6, and only costs $50k. Like they say, sell the hype . . . . .

 

[fsfs]

So much hand wringing, pearl necklace clutching, and general skepticism about this bike.

I don't get it. It will either be what they say it is, or not. We will know soon enough.

In the meantime, the BIG news about this bike is the amazing response too it in the form of pre-orders. There is clearly a HUGE DEMAND for a bike like this.

The major OEM's should be taking note and increasing their development efforts into e-dirt bikes or they seriously risk being left behind.

The Yamaha and Honda e-bikes used frames designed for ICE. They cannot be competitive unless they abandon this approach and develop frames designed specifically for an electric drive train. I suppose they know this, but it takes real commitment to design from the ground up for electric. If you look at auto manufacturers, the ones who manufacture ICE vehicles started EVs by shoe-horning EV drive train into chassis designed for ICE. That may work for point A to point B, but not for being race competitive. We shall see how they respond.

 

[fsfs]

I just saw this video of Josh Hill on the Varg, at 1:45 you can see an Alta on the side.. probably doing some direct comparison testing.
Josh Hill, Lleides

The CEO (Anton) and CTO (Paul) both ride. The Alta was bought early on so that they could ride it and understand the differences of an electric drive train vs ICE on a motocross bike. The Alta was aimed at 250F, the Varg at 450F. Sure, there was some comparison early on, but the two bikes aren't really in the same class. To a skilled rider the differences are apparent almost immediately. I am not knocking the Alta here; just stating that they were aimed at different targets and that becomes obvious very quickly.

 

[Rix]

Ty's bike is still going strong!

View attachment 8098

And an old school Toyota 22R to haul the bike around with!

 

[Mark911]

The Yamaha and Honda e-bikes used frames designed for ICE. They cannot be competitive unless they abandon this approach and develop frames designed specifically for an electric drive train. I suppose they know this, but it takes real commitment to design from the ground up for electric. If you look at auto manufacturers, the ones who manufacture ICE vehicles started EVs by shoe-horning EV drive train into chassis designed for ICE. That may work for point A to point B, but not for being race competitive. We shall see how they respond.

It took all those manufactures decades to fine tune the steel and alum frames so that they're lightweight, don't break and work for 90% of the riders and tracks of today. You think they want to start all over again? For what, a few pounds? Stark (and their paid test riders) wants everyone to believe they nailed it the firsts time out using a design with little to no previous precedence. One that uses the battery pack as a stressed member (major load path). As such I can foresee a contradiction in requirements as the pack must be able to flex at bit to allow the chassis to comply but any flex will be detrimental to any bonded/thermal interfaces (like cell to housing), could overstress cell electrical interconnections (wire bonds?), and lead to ultimate structural failure. Anything a lightweight as Stark claims must be designed with very little safety factor to minimize material. Where's the evidence of extensive and lengthy lifecycle testing of this new design?

Besides, if Stark really wanted to design a proper electric centric chassis they'd have made the battery pack hot swappable.

 

[Number Six]

Stark (and their paid test riders) wants everyone to believe they nailed it the firsts time out using a design with little to no previous precedence.

Can't believe that their paid testers ( Hill & Tortelli ) would want to look like lying stooges for an unknown manufacturer.
Hill in particular seems to be well regarded concerning his experience & estimation of the Alta machines, reasonable to assume he has a good reference point.
I've been labeled as naive more than once, so ...

Where's the evidence of extensive and lengthy lifecycle testing of this new design?

Point taken. Only time will tell if 'Varg' is actually 'roman candle' in Swedish.
It'll be interesting to see what happens once amateur riders start crashing the thing hard & tipping over - In the rocks.

Sure it's unproven, and sure there's valid raised eyebrows regarding some unconventional design elements.
The idea of a real electric dirt bike was unconventional, then Alta made one.
Thrilled that Stark is making the effort & in what appears to be a big way. Onward Legions !

 

[fsfs]

Sure it's unproven, and sure there's valid raised eyebrows regarding some unconventional design elements.
The idea of a real electric dirt bike was unconventional, then Alta made one.
Thrilled that Stark is making the effort & in what appears to be a big way. Onward Legions !

We are indeed making an effort. The design choices may seem unconventional but there are good reasons behind them. Another reason for these design choices is that this truly is clean sheet project. As for battery hot swap -- that would have compromised the bike in certain ways. Some people would gladly live with these compromises for the convenience of battery hot swap. But, the bike cannot be all things to all people.