SUR-RON MX

[TCMB371]

Which mods?

I've got a few things brewing behind the scenes here. Having a second Alta allows me to experiment a bit. Lets just say my EXR enjoys leaving rubber on the tarmac right now

 

[Rix]

Looking at the video of that guy clearing a medium triple it could be a 250cc equivalent (40hp). On the track the bike looks more like an Alta rather than a Freeride.

I think the 20HP rating is probably the continues rating, not the 30 second burst rating which could easily be 10-20HP more.

 

[bluefxstc]

HP is not a good number to evaluate an electric motor with, or to use to compare it to a gas engine. With an electric motor developing almost 100% torque from RPM 1, it feels a lot stronger than the HP rating will indicate. The formula for HP is (RPM * T) / 5252. Since the formula has RPM in it, electric motors don't indicate like a gas 2 stroke will in the lower RPMs. Torque is a better number to evaluate an electric motor with.

When I did the conversion on my riding lawn mower I replace an 18 HP gas engine with a 4-5 HP electric motor and it is as strong, if not stronger, than the gas engine.

 

[teddyquinn]

HP is not a good number to evaluate an electric motor with, or to use to compare it to a gas engine. With an electric motor developing almost 100% torque from RPM 1, it feels a lot stronger than the HP rating will indicate. The formula for HP is (RPM * T) / 5252. Since the formula has RPM in it, electric motors don't indicate like a gas 2 stroke will in the lower RPMs. Torque is a better number to evaluate an electric motor with.

When I did the conversion on my riding lawn mower I replace an 18 HP gas motor with a 4-5 HP electric motor and it is as strong, if not stronger, than the gas motor.

Totally. Torque is the primary fun factor spec for electric, especially in urban applications.

It's not at all surprising that this coming launch from Sur Ron is inferior to Alta in pure performance specs - that will likely continue to be the case for several years to come, barring any crazy, near-term development in battery tech.

However, for the general electric moto movement, a proven manufacturer with production and cost efficiencies bringing to market vehicles that (likely) will steal away at least some revenue from ICE OEMs, may help fast-track other e-moto launches and further progress the electric movement.

I had a chance to speak with Ride Cake's co-founder late last year at an event in NYC and - in addition to sharing how he spent ~$20k getting an Alta MX to Sweden - he mentioned that they're only wanting to attempt a full-size model once battery tech will allow it to be "clearly superior" to ICE 450s, as - in their view - that competitive advantage will be the only way to sustain the product. While "clearly superior" is sort of an ambiguous claim (aspects of Alta are definitely superior to 450s), I get the phased approach.

With emerging markets in APAC being the primary (only?) significant growth area in global motorcycle sales, I do think that smaller vehicle e-moto sales (mopeds, weird 3-wheelers, etc.) in those areas will be key to subsidizing more performance oriented models for MX, off-road, and street applications in the USA that can be sold at reasonable cost to make a competitive impact.

In short, Sur Ron should be recognized for trying something ambitious and taking their business into a territory where a company with a product as amazing as Alta has failed, and the revenue opportunity (at least in the USA) does not present a massive upside.

 

[Rix]

HP is not a good number to evaluate an electric motor with, or to use to compare it to a gas engine. With an electric motor developing almost 100% torque from RPM 1, it feels a lot stronger than the HP rating will indicate. The formula for HP is (RPM * T) / 5252. Since the formula has RPM in it, electric motors don't indicate like a gas 2 stroke will in the lower RPMs. Torque is a better number to evaluate an electric motor with.

When I did the conversion on my riding lawn mower I replace an 18 HP gas engine with a 4-5 HP electric motor and it is as strong, if not stronger, than the gas engine.

Excellent point. Show me the FT IBS data!

 

[Philip]

I think the 20HP rating is probably the continues rating, not the 30 second burst rating which could easily be 10-20HP more.

Makes me wonder whether our bikes have 40/50 hp bursts or continuous. The dyno pulls that I did were less than 10 seconds in duration each.

 

[Philip]

HP is not a good number to evaluate an electric motor with, or to use to compare it to a gas engine. With an electric motor developing almost 100% torque from RPM 1, it feels a lot stronger than the HP rating will indicate. The formula for HP is (RPM * T) / 5252. Since the formula has RPM in it, electric motors don't indicate like a gas 2 stroke will in the lower RPMs. Torque is a better number to evaluate an electric motor with.

When I did the conversion on my riding lawn mower I replace an 18 HP gas engine with a 4-5 HP electric motor and it is as strong, if not stronger, than the gas engine.

Totally disagree.

Horsepower is king. Any large torque number can be achieved by simply gearing down.

It's not the peak HP that matters though. It is the average horsepower over the actually used RPM range that matters. Nobody talks about this because it is not easy to measure, but this is what matters.

Our motors have a flat horsepower curve. Gas motors have spikey HP curves. We can get away with less peak HP than them, and achieve the same acceleration. But not by a factor of 4 less. Maybe by a factor of 1.5 maximum.

While accelerating, you also save time by not having to shift gears.

Once a steady state is reached, and IC motors operate in the right gear and in the meat of their powerband, the horsepower number differences become way more pronounced. My 50 hp MXR feels not as strong on straightaways on a sandy track as my old 60 hp YZ450F.

 

[Rix]

Makes me wonder whether our bikes have 40/50 hp bursts or continuous. The dyno pulls that I did were less than 10 seconds in duration each.

That is a great question. If I recall correctly, my MSO for my 2019 EXR rated our bikes at 20kw (maybe 26kw?) power right on the MSO. kind of figured that was the MAP1 rating. I turned in the MSO to DMV when I titled and registered my bike so I can't look it up now.

 

[metallic88]

That is a great question. If I recall correctly, my MSO for my 2019 EXR rated our bikes at 20kw (maybe 26kw?) power right on the MSO. kind of figured that was the MAP1 rating. I turned in the MSO to DMV when I titled and registered my bike so I can't look it up now.

on my mx mso it says 20kw, heres a picture

 

[Rix]

on my mx mso it says 20kw, heres a picture

View attachment 3623

Thanks for confirming it was 20kw, so my thinking is they rated our bikes peak output in MAP1, or this is the continues constant rating our bikes are capable of.

 

[liuqiao]

我认为这是自由骑行E的竞争者，而不是alta

 

[Philip]

我认为这是自由骑行E的竞争者，而不是alta

View attachment 3627

Google translate says:
"I think this is a competitor for Freeride E, not Alta."

 

[Bionicman]

Not super impressed with the light bee

 

[Redwolf]

Not super impressed with the light bee

If you're using the Alta as a benchmark, it never had a chance...

You definitely need to lower your standards here.

 

[Altaracer929]

Boom Bee

 

[Bionicman]

Geared up OSET mx10 is better

If you're using the Alta as a benchmark, it never had a chance...

You definitely need to lower your standards here.

My standards have voluntold been lowered -even compared to our OSET mx10 which is in a similar price range - I’d give the controller tuning throttle response etc a 5 out of 10

But you can install s pedal kit & ride the bike lanes unlike the EXR but damn it’s slow! Even compared to my recently built Monster bike

& you can certainly tell it’s a mixture of mtn bike parts during chassis stiffness oriented berm stuffing even when compared to a crf100 which I have extensively used in the past...

 

[teddyquinn]

Seems clear that Booom Bee should be (based on pure specs) better than the most recent iteration of the Freeride E, though unknown if the other bits (suspension, brakes, etc.) will result in a patently better package.

Would also think any update to the Freeride E (MY '18, I believe, was the last update) would likely be on par (or better) than booom bee in pack performance, just based on incremental improvements.

I know KTM has sort of abandoned selling the Freeride E in the USA for now, though they do continue to sell a bunch in the EU. Hopefully they'll announce something this fall for that model as well, just to keep progress on e-moto moving forward.

 

[aremean79]

This version looks nice

 

[liuqiao]

这是关于组修改的帖子。虬龙论坛

 

[Redwolf]

Looks like you have an inside look at this bike...