Varg - Gear Oil Change

[MadpdXabbott]

Mobil 1 currently , and going to try just to be stupid going to mix in 10ml of Red Line 58404 Lightweight Shockproof Gear Oil , that will make a magic potion.

 

[happyinmotion]

One of the delights of New Zealand is that the riding is amazing. One of the downsides of New Zealand is that postage costs are ridiculous.

Stark wanted $1 for each of the copper washers that you replace with each gear oil change. That's reasonable. But the postage was $53. That's not.

Hence here's the copper washer dimensions so you can pop along to your local motorbike shop and avoid having to pay shipping:

Gear oil drain plug washer - OD 16, ID 10, thickness 1.4
Gear oil level bolt washer - OD 8.8, ID 5.4, thickness 0.9

 

[MadpdXabbott]

One of the delights of New Zealand is that the riding is amazing. One of the downsides of New Zealand is that postage costs are ridiculous.

Stark wanted $1 for each of the copper washers that you replace with each gear oil change. That's reasonable. But the postage was $53. That's not.

Hence here's the copper washer dimensions so you can pop along to your local motorbike shop and avoid having to pay shipping:

Gear oil drain plug washer - OD 16, ID 10, thickness 1.4
Gear oil level bolt washer - OD 8.8, ID 5.4, thickness 0.9

Sorry Mate, US shipping just went down by 50% from $30-$15, hard to beat the prices and shipping in the US, I tried. Thank you for the good info on the Washers.

 

[MadpdXabbott]

found my Oil white and milky again, wish I knew where this water was getting in. Long hose, rode in the Rain for 2-3 hours Sunday.

 

[hawk101]

I don't remember if someone in this forum mentioned this theory.

The water might be from normal condensation, but the oil never gets hot enough to evaporate the water. Similar to a car that's driven short distances and never is allowed to fully warm up.

Where else could the water be coming from except maybe the coolant?

 

[mbw479]

found my Oil white and milky again, wish I knew where this water was getting in.

Do you have the long breather hose or the short breather hose?

 

[AL_V]

found my Oil white and milky again, wish I knew where this water was getting in.

Mine looked milky when I drained it, but after letting it sit in the drain pan, (not sure how long) the milkyness disappeared, and it looked normal.

 

[Foss]

Took the motor out from the old power train. Figured I’d share what the internals look like. Working in the counter shaft.

https://imgur.com/a/dGZrVEV

 

[mbw479]

Took the motor out from the old power train. Figured I’d share what the internals look like. Working in the counter shaft.

https://imgur.com/a/dGZrVEV

Thanks for the pic, they made me send my old motor back. What was the issue with yours. Mine overheated, I would like to have seen the damaged to the windings. Do you think that motor could be repaired by a motor rewinding company?

 

[Foss]

So they are SKF bearings, looks like we can source these if they ever fail… but the gears i don’t know??

 

[Kurlon]

That big roller bearing on the sprocket side of the output shaft is an interesting choice, I think every bike I've ever dealt with had a ball bearing there? Primary side is an unsealed ball bearing, can't tell if that's a drain hole to the main cavity on the primary end of the shaft bore or not? So, sprocket side countershaft seal has primary oil directly behind it, that's going to be a potential water ingress point if pressure washing/etc. I'd almost want to swap that for a sealed on the outside ball bearing, so you've got two seals between the world and the gear oil? Replacing that bearing looks to be 'fun', have to drive it home from the other side of the case... goody!

 

[Foss]

Yeppp and if you look closely there is another bigger hole across from the breather hole. That larger hole is for the gear oil to enter the shaft area. The two bears were stacked closer to the gear, and the thinner bearing was in the inner side. But yea driving that all the way across is not going to be fun. I am sure we could improve here for sure with better bearings maybe an alternative option.

To clarify, the tiny hole in the shaft is the breathe hole which our breather tube connects to and wraps around the sub frame which stark claims is the ingress point for water.

Across from the small hole in the counter shaft (which is hard to see with my photo) is the ingress and egress for the gear oil. It’s a channel to allow gear oil to move freely back and forth.

The main cavity larger holes you see in the video and photo are for radiator fluid to move around the main motor. In the video you can see some of the residual pink radiator fluid.

But I think I found my issue with the old motor. The outer ball bearing closest to the larger gear was not flush to the case. The countershaft had small play moving laterally back and forth just enough for the pinions to polish and file down. So my bearings are in good shape but I need to now source two gears which stark does not sell. My guess is something hit the countershaft hard enough to push the outer bearing out of its place. The plate which is suppose to prevent this is not flush to the case which is interesting, but not bent. This plate would prevent the bearing from crawling out which is flawed and not working as intended?? Was this fixed in newer motors?

 

[mbw479]

So they are SKF bearings, looks like we can source these if they ever fail… but the gears i don’t know??

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Did you find a faulty bearing in yours?

 

[Foss]

Did you find a faulty bearing in yours?

Naw it’s the gears. The countershaft some how walked the ballbearing closet to the gear out. Something must have hit it. But it created enough play to shift the larger gear which created free play. Caused the gears to polish and wear as a result.

 

[mbw479]

Naw it’s the gears. The countershaft some how walked the ballbearing closet to the gear out. Something must have hit it. But it created enough play to shift the larger gear which created free play. Caused the gears to polish and wear as a result.

Interesting, I broke a right side motor cover from an impact I didn't notice, the cover is soft, so the impact knocked the large gear.....I'll have to listen to see if anything dislodges as a result.

 

[Foss]

Should be very easy to tell. Just pull on the countershaft with the sprocket and if there is little play going in and out. The bearings have crawled and need to be seeded back. I will confirm though tomorrow, but I am pretty confident these inner bearings crawled to the gear, giving it enough room for the countershaft to move freely. As a result, this miss aligns the pinions with the upper smaller gear.

Edit: the wording is changing around a lot because I want to be as accurate as possible and describe the root cause in a way it will not be misunderstood.

 

[Foss]

This by the way we need to complain with stark future and Anton. As owners and customers we need the option to source these parts so we can do our own repairs. Right now as it stand, if the gears fail or internal parts for this motor, we have no choice but to purchase a new motor.

Also Varg owners who have the earlier bikes have legacy axle bolts and black screws used for the VCU, charging port, fan…etc which rust. These have all be replaced with newer models but are not accessible with stark.

 

[Kurlon]

Given the alignment needing to be accurate on one end of that shaft, I'm kinda surprised Stark hasn't gone to tapered bearings at each end with set preload? KTM RFS motors being used for sumo ended up making a similar change from a roller and ball setup to tapered with preload to survive side thrust from crank spread at sustained RPMs.

 

[Foss]

Regarding milky oil changes…

So I took the vacuum line tapper out of the motor and added some blue loctite to the threads. Stark added a tiny washer to this part, figured some thread locker will be some added sealant. Also I added a pinch hose clamp to assure no water ingress is coming through at the base of the hose. My guess is pressure washing the water may sneak through here.

The other ingress point might be the roller bearings on the counter shaft. I am taking the front sprocket off and adding some water repellent lubricant around the seal and sleeve. It might be worth adding lubricant to this area and be cautious pressure washing around the front sprocket.

As far as gaskets I don’t see any ingress points for water. I have torn this whole motor apart and have not seen any water seepage markings on the gaskets on the motor cover gearbox or terminal gasket (left side cover).

 

[Torqu3]

I changed mine last weekend after about 10 hours on the bike. Overall easy riding hours. Only one ride with significant moisture from a deeper water section.