Varg suspension

[TechZoo]

The front is stiff, but the rear shock is way stiff! Nothing like my other bikes. It was making studder bumps on the exit of my turns. I took it to my suspension shop, and he said it had a stiff single-stage compression stack. He replaced it with a softer two-stage setup. Much better! Any thoughts as to why it's so far off? I can check the other bikes at the dealer to see if it's an error.

 

[fred900]

I took off my suspension from my 2020 KTM 450 that the Stark replaced, Lainer Shock and my forks. Had to have the bottom
Triple Clamp enlarged. Bike was amazing but not perfect. On the shock I just took out Rebound and it was amazing. On the forks, I played with Oil and clickers but same problem. I ended up doing the revalve myself, I took off one of the mid-valve face rebound shims (large shim on the valve) in .10 thickness and added a 10 .10 on the comp side in the High Speed Comp area. I have the exact came suspension on my 23 KTM 350, and the stark suspension it the best I have ever rode on.
On the other hand, my buddy had his bike done by ENZO (Forks) on his KTM and had Shock Theropy revalve the shock and put the Stark uppers on the forks. Rode mine and then took his bike to REP. They did the revalve to their specs and the bike was not for a human, ok vet rider, but for a pro, they put 5.9 springs in the front a a 6.8 in the rear. Rode my bike again and said F-it and took to Lainer, got the Impact 18 shock and 6.0 spring with my exact internal settings. Had all the Lainer special Lainer KYB parts installed in the forks, but only put 5.0 springs in the front. Bike was really good but no hold up in the front, So I put the original 5.2 springs in the front and moved the face shim and now he says his bike is better than mine, lighter springs, I have 5.4 in the front.
I think back when I first got the bike, I think I had the rebound almost all the way out and that was the best setting for stock suspension.

 

[wfopete]

I'm not going to go through all I did but I ride Arkansas rocks and roots (2nd gear type of trail) so plush is key. Two things; one the preload is way too much on the forks (10mm). There are a couple ways to fix this but I took the quick and dirty way: I cut the plastic spring perch down 5mm. Also the compression stack on the base valve is uber stiff. I tossed out about half the 32.0 shims as just a start. Yes I did a lot more including going with a early style mid-valve (Lanier) to get rid of the KYB trampoline spring. I use .46kg springs.

As for the rear shock, once I set the sag, backed off the compression and dialed in the rebound, it wasn't too bad. Yes it could be better but I can live with it for now.

 

[jswr450]

Went for the first ride today. Stiff but compliant, but I didn't move the clicker settings. Will probably go a couple clicks out (less) on both compression and rebound, but I wanted to ride it for a few hours before making adjustments. I have KYB SSS and their shock (KYB) on my YZ250x, and I've found both very responsive to clicker adjustments.

 

[mbrobich]

For those asking about which fork springs work, I use the same fork springs from Racetech for my 2005 KTM 525EXC. Same length, ID and OD. I had a set of .40, .42, .44 and .46 in the garage (Have had too may KTM's over the years lol). I recently lost a bit of weight so to properly tune for my weight, I left a 200lb spring in the left leg and installed a .42(170lbs) spring in the right leg with 3 weight oil in the cartridge and fork leg(this allows greater clicker adjustability). For the rear I went with Racetech's suggestion and installed a 4.8KG coil on the shock. This has transformed the bike into a veritable woods weapon.

 

[TCMB371]

Just realized last Friday that my bike was delivered with the wrong shock. I'm supposed to have a G fork (5N 0.51kg/mm springs) and D shock (58N 5.91kg/mm spring), but i have a C shock with the 56N (5.71kg/mm) spring. I guess i never thought to check and expected it to be correct . I mentioned in the video of my very first ride on the bike that it felt a little choppered out but I thought it was the fork height (was flush with clamps at the time) and raising the forks 3mm in the clamps made it feel better. The bike since always felt soft in the rear, and honestly very different than the bikes i rode in Barcelona last year. Interestingly, the RideJBI crew in their testing eventually moved to the spring setup my bike has now as they said it makes the bike more stable, which i would agree with.

The bike has been feeling a bit soft all around so i just ordered some new springs to stiffen the whole bike up overall and shift the balance a bit more neutral. I'm going to keep one .51kg fork spring and put a .54 fork spring in the other for an effective 1.05kg fork spring rate. Out back, i'm going up to a 6.0kg spring for now. The next shock springrate available is a 6.3 and i think that will be too stiff, but may try it at some point.

My crude balance math says this new spring setup will bring the balance of the bike closer to stock but not quite as stiff in the rear. Also interestingly, the spring rates recommended by RaceTech are even more stink bugged than the stock G/D combo!

Fork (kg)	Shock (kg)	Balance Ratio (R / 2*F) (Lower is rearward)
.51 (Stock G)	5.91 (Stock D)	5.8
.51 (Stock G)	5.71 (Stock C)	5.6 (My current setup)
0.51 + 0.54	6.0	5.71 (My new setup)
0.52	6.22	5.98 (RaceTech spec)

 

[LTJ]

First time I rode the Stark, it was in the heat. The bike was really stiff. I barfed after the ride because it was so harsh.

The next time I rode it, I backed out the clickers all the way, set the sag, and rode the same trails. Night and day difference. Once it started to break in after 3 hours, it more plush. I would say it's still firm, but I think it's doable. I like the idea of removing oil.

I'm around 225 lbs with gear, 6 ft tall, and 57 years old. I just trail ride. I went one step down on rider weight per SV recommendation for off-road use. I later found out is that only changed the clicker settings. They only use two different spring rates for this bike.

I might do either the race tech gold valves or maybe try the Reds Cone valves from Alpine X. The RC Tire Guy uses the Reds Cone valves and says they are pretty good.

I was bummed that Kreft went out of business. I had them do my KTM 500 and wow, amazing suspension.

 

[TCMB371]

First time I rode the Stark, it was in the heat. The bike was really stiff. I barfed after the ride because it was so harsh.

The next time I rode it, I backed out the clickers all the way, set the sag, and rode the same trails. Night and day difference. Once it started to break in after 3 hours, it more plush. I would say it's still firm, but I think it's doable. I like the idea of removing oil.

I'm around 225 lbs with gear, 6 ft tall, and 57 years old. I just trail ride. I went one step down on rider weight per SV recommendation for off-road use. I later found out is that only changed the clicker settings. They only use two different spring rates for this bike.

I might do either the race tech gold valves or maybe try the Reds Cone valves from Alpine X. The RC Tire Guy uses the Reds Cone valves and says they are pretty good.

I was bummed that Kreft went out of business. I had them do my KTM 500 and wow, amazing suspension.

Stark offers 3 different suspension configurations, and only vary by spring rate and clicker settings. The valving is exactly the same for all, and is motocross spec. The shim stacks in the Varg suspension are similar to a 2020-2022 YZ450 but with a bit more compression damping.

 

[TCMB371]

Just realized last Friday that my bike was delivered with the wrong shock. I'm supposed to have a G fork (5N 0.51kg/mm springs) and D shock (58N 5.91kg/mm spring), but i have a C shock with the 56N (5.71kg/mm) spring. I guess i never thought to check and expected it to be correct . I mentioned in the video of my very first ride on the bike that it felt a little choppered out but I thought it was the fork height (was flush with clamps at the time) and raising the forks 3mm in the clamps made it feel better. The bike since always felt soft in the rear, and honestly very different than the bikes i rode in Barcelona last year. Interestingly, the RideJBI crew in their testing eventually moved to the spring setup my bike has now as they said it makes the bike more stable, which i would agree with.

The bike has been feeling a bit soft all around so i just ordered some new springs to stiffen the whole bike up overall and shift the balance a bit more neutral. I'm going to keep one .51kg fork spring and put a .54 fork spring in the other for an effective 1.05kg fork spring rate. Out back, i'm going up to a 6.0kg spring for now. The next shock springrate available is a 6.3 and i think that will be too stiff, but may try it at some point.

My crude balance math says this new spring setup will bring the balance of the bike closer to stock but not quite as stiff in the rear. Also interestingly, the spring rates recommended by RaceTech are even more stink bugged than the stock G/D combo!

Fork (kg)	Shock (kg)	Balance Ratio (R / 2*F) (Lower is rearward)
.51 (Stock G)	5.91 (Stock D)	5.8
.51 (Stock G)	5.71 (Stock C)	5.6 (My current setup)
0.51 + 0.54	6.0	5.71 (My new setup)
0.52	6.22	5.98 (RaceTech spec)

I rode Revolution MX yesterday and I like the new 1.05kg/mm combined fork spring and 6.0kg/mm shock setup. Balance is definitely better than it was before. I initially started with 105mm of race sag but that still felt a bit choppered out. I tightened up the preload in steps and ultimately settled on 98mm of race sag which results in a static sag of 35mm.

Clicker settings with this spring setup landed at:

Fork Position in clamps	2.5mm of tube above top clamp.
Fork Compression	16
Fork Rebound	14
Shock Low Speed Compression	14
Shock High Speed Compression	16
Shock Low Speed Rebound	14
Shock High Speed Rebound	12 ​

The cushion/pillow affect of stiffer springs coupled with softer valving produces a confidence inspiring feeling. I found that i preferred quicker rebound settings, allowing the bike to stand tall and be in the softest part of the travel to soak up small chatter.

I'm going to the open house at Club MX next weekend and i hear that it can be somewhat soft and sandy there, so interested to see how my settings will change. I suspect i'll be dropping the sag back down to 100-103mm for more stability in the soft stuff.

 

[Theo]

What oil have you used in the fork with the original valving guys? According to the Specification sheet from Stark's site, 355 cc of the KhL 15-11 oil should be used in each leg and that must be the oil outside the cartridge; I guess that something more than 200 cc of the same oil should be used for the cartridge.
That oil surely is not easy to find and probably it can be found only from some unknown seller online, then who knows whether it's a genuine oil or not. The KYB Fork oil 01M is suggested for SSS forks and looks more popular; according to some maybe not reliable sources online, its viscosity at 40 °C is 15.8 cSt, close to the one of, for example, the Motul Fork Oil Factory Line Light 5W. I haven't found datasheets at KYB's site.

 

[TCMB371]

What oil have you used in the fork with the original valving guys? According to the Specification sheet from Stark's site, 355 cc of the KhL 15-11 oil should be used in each leg and that must be the oil outside the cartridge; I guess that something more than 200 cc of the same oil should be used for the cartridge.
That oil surely is not easy to find and probably it can be found only from some unknown seller online, then who knows whether it's a genuine oil or not. The KYB Fork oil 01M is suggested for SSS forks and looks more popular; according to some maybe not reliable sources online, its viscosity at 40 °C is 15.8 cSt, close to the one of, for example, the Motul Fork Oil Factory Line Light 5W. I haven't found datasheets at KYB's site.

Im using maxima racing 5wt fork oil in the forks.

 

[Theo]

Im using maxima racing 5wt fork oil in the forks.

Ok, thank you. They also have a datasheet on their official website with viscosity etc. Is your valving stock?

 

[TCMB371]

Ok, thank you. They also have a datasheet on their official website with viscosity etc. Is your valving stock?

Stock for now, yes.

 

[fred900]

I use BLUD. Makes a big difference for me, seems to last forever but I do polish my fork springs which is probable why it last so long. Goes in Red and comes out red 50 hours later. Suspension Fluids

 

[TCMB371]

Going with the following shim stacks with RaceTech gold valves. I'm definitely no pro but on my Alta i tried RaceTech's A-class setting and RaceTech's Pro setting and the pro setting was a lot more confidence inspiring so i'm trying that first on my Varg. Interestingly, the shim stacks RaceTech provided for my Varg's KYB shock very closely mimics the shim stacks provided for my Alta's WP shock (which i fricken love). I guess that shouldn't be surprising since both are 50mm shocks using the same gold valve kit.

I currently have .51+.54 for a 1.05kg combined fork spring rate and a 6.0kg shock. May order a 6.3kg shock

 

[Theo]

Just realized last Friday that my bike was delivered with the wrong shock. I'm supposed to have a G fork (5N 0.51kg/mm springs) and D shock (58N 5.91kg/mm spring), but i have a C shock with the 56N (5.71kg/mm) spring.

Surely other people already knew this, but I've just found out how to identify what springs we have thanks to the file Suspension identification that they have added to the tutorials & technical page of Stark's site. Now I know where to find those G, D and C letters.

 

[AL_V]

Surely other people already knew this, but I've just found out how to identify what springs we have thanks to the file Suspension identification that they have added to the tutorials & technical page of Stark's site. Now I know where to find those G, D and C letters.

Thanks for that useful info!

 

[Philip]

https://s3-stark-production.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/technical-documents/Suspension_Idenfitication_Stark_Future.pdf

 

[TCMB371]

Had the first ride on my new suspension yesterday.

I really love how the forks feel now. Gone is the harshness over small chatter thanks to the 0.25mm of float and stiff stack behind it. My confidence in the front end in corners was significantly better than stock. The front end is now very plush in corners yet handles basically whatever i can throw at it. Racetech spec'd 0.54 springs in both legs but i currently have 1 stock 0.51 fork spring in one leg and a 0.54 spring in the other leg for a combined 1.05kg/mm fork spring rate. I wanted to make sure the front end wasn't too stiff before putting the 0.54 in the other leg. After testing yesterday, i think i'm okay to step up to .54 in both.

I'm a little disappointed in the behavior of the shock in my current configuration.

On the rebound side - when comparing the stock rebound stack to racetech's spec, i was expecting a bit less overall rebound damping with the racetech setup given it has 1 less 40x.20mm face shim and a 24mm clamping shim vs a 25mm clamping shim (stock). However, i was surprised to feel the shock seems to have a bit more rebound damping than the stock configuration. At 18clicks out on low speed and 12 clicks out on highspeed, the bike was very dead in the rear and jumped front end high a lot. I backed both rebound clickers all the way out and it felt a little better but still not the rebound action i would prefer. The other difference is that i'm using a rebound separator valve nut instead of a typical shaft nut so oil is forced through the compression shims vs allowed through the shaft. I suspect this is causing a little extra restriction on rebound since the oil going through the needle circuit now has to work through small holes in the nut and around a check shim on exit. Im assuming the valve stack would have accounted for that since it's specified. One other thing is that racetech specs a 6.3kg shock spring for this setup but i'm still running a 6.0kg spring. I can't imagine 5% stiffer rate would make that much of a difference here.

On the compression side - the shock was ok but didn't have the hold up that I'm seeking. I can't imagine a 5% stiffer shock spring rate would have made any difference but I'm going to try the 6.3 and see how it feels. The shock was bottom on hard landings and slamming into jump faces which leads me to believe it needs more damping. My plan is to try the 6.3 spring next and then tear it apart again to stiffen up the compression stack (probably 1 size larger clamp) and softer rebound (probably 1 size smaller clamp).

Honestly surprised it feels much different than my Altas shock but the compression adjuster stacks are different and I'm sure the linkages are very different between the bikes.

 

[Theo]

The KYB Fork oil 01M is suggested for SSS forks

I've just found out that the 01M is listed as a genuine spare part for the Varg on the Techical Touch's website:
Oils & Grease - Front Fork - Kyb Genuine Parts - KYB - Shop