2023 Honda CRF250R with QS138 70H V3 Motor and EM260S Controller

[ProperHooligan]

Don, have you ever had any problems with the votol em260? Mine (E&C kit) is cutting out at full throttle in all power modes. Once I come to a full stop it will go again. I sent it back to E&C and they reflashed their tune but that didn’t fix it. It’s definitely the controller, my buddy let me borrow his spare controller and the problem disappeared. Thoughts? Or is it just tired?

 

[DonCox]

Did you look at the code that came up? It is real hard to do, since the controller does not log errors. You can get a new controller from China for under $300. Load your tune and go. Then battle with E&C for a refund. I will send you the link. It will only take a couple weeks.

 

[DonCox]

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805683723855.html

 

[rmz290]

Don,

I just wanted to say thanks for the inspiration as well as documentation of your builds here and on youtube. Between those and the help of a friend that built an electric bike, I just about finished my CRF. I presently have a loaner 40 AH E&C battery in it but need to decide on what I want. Thinking at least 50 AH. Any recommendations from your builds as far as fit?

 

[DonCox]

Your CRF is a newer one I think, but I was told on the 2010 and older perimeter frames, that the 450 frame is wider inside than a 250 is. I am building a 2005 450crf now, and I am helping a guy in Italy who is building a 2005 250crf. He was coming up with different measurements for battery space. His is smaller than the 450 by quite q bit. ( Mine 330 x 2 For the 450CRF 2005 , I have ordered a battery 8.25 x 6.25 x 13" from Amorge, and I should get it any day now. I will let you know how it fits. I have ordered for this bike a 20S12P Molicel P42A, but a friend in almost the same space ordered a 20S13P Samsung 50S cells battery, and it fit his YZ250F2018. This gives him a 65AH. My 20S12P gives me 50AH
I have ordered a battery from Amorge, Amorge is good on price, good on pre-sale communication, but poor on after sale communication , and poor on Shipping info, (nothing).
Make a wooden practice battery and see if 330mm x 211mm x 161 fits. That should take 20S12p and or 20S13P. Their price to you is 1800 to 2000 installed in steel box and their air ship. 4 week right now. It was supposed to be only 2 weeks.

 

[rmz290]

Thanks Don and yes, mine is a 2020. I had a friend whom recently ordered nearly the same size 21S12P from Amorge and it came in a bit larger and wouldn't fit in his 2018 CRF. I recently had them quote the same size (the E&C batteries a friend has fits like a glove) as you and they mentioned they no longer supported 76V and would only quote 72V or 80V. Ironically, the dimensions you were provided were a bit different than what they quoted me as well as what they quoted my friend. I'll be interested to see how close the battery you get it, hopefully it's spot on. It also took about 5 months for my friend to get his battery (around 2 months for amorge to ship + 3 months by sea). I'm tempted to tackle building my own battery so at least I know it will fit.

 

[DonCox]

I have built a lot of batteries, and they always end up a little larger than the plan, and it is always hard to get them in. We use a somewhat unique method to build. From the very beginning, I wanted fusible links on every cell, and I tried spot welding, but that didn't work well, so I went with the solder method and fusible links. On my YouTube channel I have some YouTubes of the early method. Since then we have our fusible links made with a waterjet method. These have worked really solid. But it just is too time intensive to build our own. Amorge can build them for what it costs me to buy the parts. Here is a pictures of our new build method. If you are interested, I can share more info. I have to go right now.

 

[ProperHooligan]

Your CRF is a newer one I think, but I was told on the 2010 and older perimeter frames, that the 450 frame is wider inside than a 250 is. I am building a 2005 450crf now, and I am helping a guy in Italy who is building a 2005 250crf. He was coming up with different measurements for battery space. His is smaller than the 450 by quite q bit. ( Mine 330 x 2 For the 450CRF 2005 , I have ordered a battery 8.25 x 6.25 x 13" from Amorge, and I should get it any day now. I will let you know how it fits. I have ordered for this bike a 20S12P Molicel P42A, but a friend in almost the same space ordered a 20S13P Samsung 50S cells battery, and it fit his YZ250F2018. This gives him a 65AH. My 20S12P gives me 50AH
I have ordered a battery from Amorge, Amorge is good on price, good on pre-sale communication, but poor on after sale communication , and poor on Shipping info, (nothing).
Make a wooden practice battery and see if 330mm x 211mm x 161 fits. That should take 20S12p and or 20S13P. Their price to you is 1800 to 2000 installed in steel box and their air ship. 4 week right now. It was supposed to be only 2 weeks.

I have been trying to figure this out as well Don. There is just not a lot of room in my 2006 CRF250R frame so I had to get creative with my pack design to fit 20s13p P42A. The rear shock mount moved lower on the +2009 frames which looks like it would help. The YZF certainly seems to have more room for batteries.

 

[C5tor]

View attachment 11554

Is that a huge battery, or are those just tiny feet?

 

[ProperHooligan]

Don, have you ever had any problems with the votol em260? Mine (E&C kit) is cutting out at full throttle in all power modes. Once I come to a full stop it will go again. I sent it back to E&C and they reflashed their tune but that didn’t fix it. It’s definitely the controller, my buddy let me borrow his spare controller and the problem disappeared. Thoughts? Or is it just tired?

I sorted this problem out for anyone that stumbles on this thread in the future. I was able to read the fault code by keeping the throttle wide open and pushed it over to my laptop to read the code: hall fault. I found on a different thread that can mean throttle fault. The max throttle voltage on my controller was set at 4.58v, the throttle stop must have worn and now output 4.62v. My buddies controller was set at 4.8v and was why it wasn’t faulting out.

 

[DonCox]

Is that a huge battery, or are those just tiny feet?

They are small feet, That's all they gave me. I have to be careful in strong winds, I get blown over...

 

[Dave Daum]

Hello Don, I couldn't help but notice how you've fabricated a custom cover over the top of the battery. Was this to create room to clear the battery? Have you relocated the stock front seat attachment point? And, can you share your source of supply for the power switch? Thanks for everything! -- Dave

 

[DonCox]

Dave, this was a 2023 Honda CRF, and it came with a Titanium tank, and I just couldn't bare to cut it up. So I found this Carbon Fiber tank cover. You can see the battery comes all the way up
The power switch on this one is for Dual battery system, but you can get both single and Dual battery switch's from Amazon. There are others on Amazon, but we have found that the BEP switches have been the best. We also put a 1K10W resistor across this switch to prevent arcing. The Controllers have large capacitors in them, and the initial surge will arc any switch or connector when you first connect them. It scares many folks, the first time they hook them up, thinking that they damaged a component inside the controller, but it is harmless except to switches and connectors.

Amazon.com

Honda Tank Covers & Tank Protection - Pro-Carbon Racing

Browse our range of carbon fiber Honda tank covers and protection, built to protect your Honda motocross. All parts are made bespoke and in the UK.

www.pro-carbonracing.com

 

[Dave Daum]

Dave, this was a 2023 Honda CRF, and it came with a Titanium tank, and I just couldn't bare to cut it up. So I found this Carbon Fiber tank cover. You can see the battery comes all the way up
The power switch on this one is for Dual battery system, but you can get both single and Dual battery switch's from Amazon. There are others on Amazon, but we have found that the BEP switches have been the best. We also put a 1K10W resistor across this switch to prevent arcing. The Controllers have large capacitors in them, and the initial surge will arc any switch or connector when you first connect them. It scares many folks, the first time they hook them up, thinking that they damaged a component inside the controller, but it is harmless except to switches and connectors.

Amazon.com

Honda Tank Covers & Tank Protection - Pro-Carbon Racing

Browse our range of carbon fiber Honda tank covers and protection, built to protect your Honda motocross. All parts are made bespoke and in the UK.

www.pro-carbonracing.com

View attachment 12139

Hi Don,
I just order the battery switch and the resistor. E&C have a 2 to 4 week lead-time for the QS 138 kits. I'm trying to gather up all the peripheral components during the wait
Thanks again,
Dave

 

[Theo]

We also put a 1K10W resistor across this switch to prevent arcing. The Controllers have large capacitors in them, and the initial surge will arc any switch or connector when you first connect them. It scares many folks, the first time they hook them up, thinking that they damaged a component inside the controller, but it is harmless except to switches and connectors.

It's basically like a simplified version of a precharge circuit, but it seems like in your case the resistor is in series with the main circuit and not in parallel with a relay like done usually. What I conclude is that the current going to the controller will always pass through that resistor but that it will only take 10 W which is negligible and that's why you don't need a parallel circuit, right?.

 

[DonCox]

Theo, The resistor is in parallel with the master on/off Switch. I use the switch instead of a relay. So when you plug in the battery to the bike with the switch off, the 1K resistor will fill the Capacitors in the controller, with no arc, in a few seconds. So from then on there are no arcs switching on/off. There is virtually no drain when the bike is off, since the caps are charged and not being used.

 

[Dave Daum]

I'm getting closer to the final specifications for the Amorge battery. Keeping simplicity in mind, I'm leaning towards Molicel P42A, 20s12p, BMS mounted outside the 6.25" x 7.25" x 13" steel case. Acheiving this small size casr reqires the individual cell holder be eliminated in favor of gluing the cells together.

all of this will give me an easy quick swap through the tank opening. If it gives me the power and range needed, I'll order a second battery to swap while the other is charging.

As tough as it is to be patient, I will wait for my E&C kit to arrive before ordering the battery.

Finally, I want to pay a visit to Don Cox and Bob Casper. I'm sure I'll marvel at their achievements. -- Dave

 

[Eliner33]

Hey All, I'm just starting on my attempt to build an e-moto conversion and thankful for the wealth of knowledge and info shared here. Apologies if this exists in an alternative thread, but I'm still looking for a "donor bike" and it would be great to know what will work best in terms of fitting a set-up similar to those described on this thread-- with an electro and co QS138 kit and something that might get me around 50+ ah, like a 20S12p and/or 20S13P and/or 21S12P.

It sounds like most 450s-- KX, RMZ, YZ, CRF-- will have no problem with fitment. How about 250's? It sounds like the YZ's are pretty spacious and the CRF's can be a little tight for fitting battery cases. Any thoughts on KX or RMZ? I'm trying to do this on a budget, so want to be able to jump on a good deal when I find it, but a little concerned I could choose the wrong frame. I'm also noticing that a 250 may be easier to find. Any models or years I should avoid or (conversely) seek out? If possible, I'd also love to be able to use the lithium king universal motor mount so that may be a consideration too.

Thanks in advance for any guidance or advice!

--Eric

 

[DonCox]

Hey Eric, welcome to the Forum. I'll give you my 2 cents worth, and you may find other opinions. My two favorite bikes to build are the 2014-2018 YZF250F and YZ450F. This has plenty of space for the battery, and the suspension can be really refined. My second choice is a 2018-2022 KTM 450SXF, and the KTM 250SXF of the same years is a little more work. The bottom frame tubes are 1/2" narrower, and make the chain lineup just a little more difficult. I have done a few Honda's but the space for battery is a little tighter with many models, and it is hard to sort all of them. I have built a lot of batteries, but Amorge now has batteries that I can use in those 2 bikes. If you build your own battery, you can use any frame out there. The YZ frames the battery goes in and out thru the top, and the KTM's thru the side, and both could be made for pretty quick changes. Most of the batteries we are using are 20S12P, I have a friend who had Amorge build him a 20S13P that fit in the YZ frame. You use the Molicel P42A cells, and you can have the current you need for motocross, or use the Samsung 50S cells for trail riding and more distance. Or use the Molicel P50B cells and get both for more money.
The QS138 70H V3 motor is a good choice with the Votol EM260S controller. If you want more potential power go with the EBMX X-9000 controller. ElectroandCompany.com sells the QS138 and EM260 package, or you can order straight China. If you want the more power, go with the EBMX X-9000 controller. ElectroandCompany.com will have a bigger Controller someday, but the Zapper Trumoto so far it hasn't materialized.
Lithium-king can definitely help you with mounts, sprockets and other stuff.

 

[Eliner33]

Many thanks, Don. I'm totally new this but have been pouring over these threads (and videos) and thanks to you and the others here, I'm feeling confident enough to take this on. Given my lack of experience, I'm inclined to go with the electric and co motor kit to take advantage of the controller tune and wire harness. Likewise, building a battery is way beyond my scope of knowledge/ability, so will likely go with Amorge as you've described. A woods rider is my ultimate goal, so will prioritize distance over sustained (or top) speed.
I'll add the KTM SXF to my list, although a cursory search suggests it may be harder to find one in my price range around my area. Part of the reason I asked about Kawasaki and Suzuki is that I've been finding more availability in later model frames at good prices...possibly says something about Suzuki and Kawasaki owners being more likely to seize their bikes .
Thanks again!