EX Custom iOS/Android App

OpaTsupa said:

I'm not noticing any difference between Standard Power Modes and my creative Advanced Power Modes.

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I want the initial hit to get the front light/up, but in the basic power modes that do this for me (40+ HP) the continuous high power afterwards will easily break traction and make the bike hard to control. With the advanced modes I can dial in a "dip" in power to remedy that.

OpaTsupa said:

So your plan is not to use any phone in the console?

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Yes. An initial check with SVAG before riding and later a check for SOC at rests. You can check for the mode your are in with down-switching to first and then up.

Michael

drehwurm68 said:

SVAG for the win Broke my Arkenstone and ordered a new one right away. A week later and the status of the order was still "being prepared". I was lucky that I had set my charging preferences to 100% before the incident so I could have guessed that after charging the bike would be full - could have been otherwise as well, but no way to determine without the Arkenstone. Downloaded SVAG and my riding trip was saved - Brongle I owe you!

After wasting 300€ I'm pretty sure the Arkenstone, which is one of my biggest points of criticism on the Varg anyway, will not go on the bike anymore. So is there a way for SVAG to determine if the basic or advanced power modes are active? In that case I would cancel my subscription and see if without contact to the Arkenstone the Varg will reset power modes once the subscription expires. Background being that I haven't been able to find a basic power setting that will fit me as well as the advanced one I've come up with, but while I'd be willing to pay for the advanced feature once paying for it every month with the subscription is just ridiculous.

Michael

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Thanks for the kind words! Someone else mentioned they wanted the HP/Regen displayed on the dashboard instead of the mode/gear-selector so thats something I've looked into. The only reason I haven't done it yet is that reading configuration data like maps and advanced power curves requires actually "writing" data to the VCU (Stark's implementation is... interesting to say the least) so I've deferred it for now. It's in the category of things I'll eventually get around too but I can't make any promises as to when.

JJ2 said:

Really a great app and a very good one for checking the battery status.

I am still missing a rpm display of the motor in the dashboard, or have I overlooked it so far?
Rpm would be a great help to better configure the advanced mapping to see exactly which rpm range you are in.

Also good to check exactly in which rpm range the EX is whining compared to the quieter MX.

What is the current software version, mine says 1.5.1 (111)

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any chance for rpm displayed in the dashboard?

brongle said:

Thanks for the kind words! Someone else mentioned they wanted the HP/Regen displayed on the dashboard instead of the mode/gear-selector so thats something I've looked into. The only reason I haven't done it yet is that reading configuration data like maps and advanced power curves requires actually "writing" data to the VCU (Stark's implementation is... interesting to say the least) so I've deferred it for now. It's in the category of things I'll eventually get around too but I can't make any promises as to when.

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We look forward to implementation reading/writing configuration data like maps and advanced power curves. Each individual will be free to decide whether to use an alternative application for writing data to the VCU.

I'm happy for no writing data to the VCU at this point, in thinking about any potential reasons for them pulling the warranty. So if features that write data to the VCU are added, I hope this access level can be chosen by the user.

DaveAusNor said:

I'm happy for no writing data to the VCU at this point, in thinking about any potential reasons for them pulling the warranty. So if features that write data to the VCU are added, I hope this access level can be chosen by the user.

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Yes, writing could be more problem for the user. Potentially for the programmer as well?

DaveAusNor said:

I'm happy for no writing data to the VCU at this point, in thinking about any potential reasons for them pulling the warranty. So if features that write data to the VCU are added, I hope this access level can be chosen by the user.

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I also would stay on the safe side and leave writing operations to the arkenstone. They want to make money with their pro mode maps, so don't make them angry by bypassing this even if possible. They might be able to encrypt communication by OTA updating VCU and phone and that would make custom apps nearly impossible as far as i understood.

Hinkelstein said:

They want to make money with their pro mode maps, so don't make them angry by bypassing this even if possible.

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So the intention to make money is a good enough reason to rip off customers and let them get away with it? At the moment I don't get to ride more than 4-5 times a month, so with the monthly subscription being €12,90 this is ~3€ per ride I pay to stark. After already having paid a premium of 13.000€ for the bike I'm feeling of being ripped off. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't use the advanced power modes if I didn't feel they'd provide an added value to my riding experience. Nevertheless, regardless of how anyone feels about this subscription model, personally I feel I'm not getting a comparable value for the money I'm paying to Stark and this makes me an unhappy customer looking for alternatives. Similar feelings have created a whole new industry in the automotive sector with tuning companies and tools to modify stock ECUs. So whatever way Brongle decides to take, Stark will sooner or later be faced with that reality anyway and we will see how they react to it.

Michael

Don't get me wrong, i don't like subscription either.

However when it comes to writing to the bike they are not forbidding it, same as the car OEM's they don't have the right to do so.
On the other hand i get why it will void the warranty. Image having made a product, somebody messes with the software/communication and now there is an electrical failure and expect you to investigate and repair it free of charge... You get what i'm saying?

On the other hand you are free to not use the subscription model. If they didn't release it it would still be a wonderful bike and nobody would be complaining.

Erwin P said:

On the other hand i get why it will void the warranty. Image having made a product, somebody messes with the software/communication and now there is an electrical failure and expect you to investigate and repair it free of charge... You get what i'm saying?

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I'm totally on the same line here, but I was not talking about warranty. Writing to the bike and writing to the bike is not the same. We have the instance of tuning it to a point were it can damage the engine/battery, we have the "electronic clutches" with traction control which will alter the throttle signal to a point it can possibly cause reactions of the VCU that are harmful and then we have the instance discussed here. Brongle said that in order to get some specific information from the VCU you have to write to it - thinking back of my old days in university there where some electronic components where in order to get a reaction you first had to write a specific value into a register and the IC would respond. I assume it is the same here (but I might be wrong as well) - there is information on the CAN bus the the VCU will constantly "publish" and to which SVAG is listening. Then there is information the VCU will only publish on request which requires the "request" to be posted on the CAN bus by SVAG and I assume this is the "writing" Brongle refers to. This in no way means altering information stored on the VCU nor would have any effect on performance. Now going a step further and changing available features like advances power modes is still not a warranty touching subject as long as it stays within the boundaries of the stock bike; obviously it would touch Starks business interests, but I doubt this could be used to void the warranty (again, I might be wrong here). Does this clarify my standpoint?

Erwin P said:

On the other hand you are free to not use the subscription model. If they didn't release it it would still be a wonderful bike and nobody would be complaining.

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Of course, but for me it will not be an as wonderful bike as before after having tasted the high hanging grapes in form of the advanced power modes so one way or another I'm going to fix that

Michael

I do see we're almost on the same page here.
Lets put it first Stark did not say that anything discussed in this topic will void the warranty other than the clutch. We are ''assuming'' a lott just to be on the safe side and stay away from warranty claims that might be rejected.

I doubt voiding the warranty on such an app has anything to do with missing out on income from their subscription. Sure some people might use apps like this, but plenty will just stick with the OEM way. I think it has a lott more to do with having to replace a couple of damaged batterys/motors/VCU's from bikes that use less well written apps. IF those items cost €2000 (their costprice?) each one would mean a 154 months worth of subscription. So i think the missed income from subscription is in the small numbers.

With €12,99 a month i still don't like it (i would rather pay once and be done with it), but with the GPS navigation, 10GB data etc etc it's not that bad of a deal.
They have to pay for that data as well, i guess somewhere in the €3-6 region. That leaves a very tiny profit margin of just €7-10 per month, they're not going to get rich on that.

I have been thinking of modifying my Beta 2 strokes engine character. That would cost me a head, and exhaust, some powervalve springs and some jets/needles IF i do all of that myself €450 ish. Over 34 months in subscription too.
Now it's quite in the middle and i would want it to have more topend for our high speed OTR season.
But actually i would have to do it twice if i want to make a really good rock crawler out of it. So another €450 + a whole collection of sprockets to accomodate that different tunes.

I have never tried the advanced maps, just what came stock on my early MX 1.0 and that is allready much wider than any other bike could offer.

Erwin P said:

With €12,99 a month i still don't like it (i would rather pay once and be done with it), but with the GPS navigation, 10GB data etc etc it's not that bad of a deal.

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Have you actually tried that? The navigation/map sucked my data volume empty within 2days of normal usage just with map downloads - afterwards you can't even use the navigation any more to get you home (had to open a hotspot with my personal phone). Apart from that the navigation is very basic, you can't set waypoints nor navigate towards them for example. That's not worth the subscription.

Erwin P said:

I have been thinking of modifying my Beta 2 strokes engine character. That would cost me a head, and exhaust, some powervalve springs and some jets/needles IF i do all of that myself €450 ish. Over 34 months in subscription too.

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I spent close to 1600€ for a KESS3 to have total control over the KTM tpi/tbi ECU and it was well worth to me - just a hint Brongle

But back on topic.

I just got my replacement Arkenstone and the app will not connect to the bike - says "Vehicle not associated with this account". All the usual tricks and tips (deep shutdown, ...) have been done, the Arkenstone can actually see the bike on Bluetooth and even connect with the pin provided by SVAG and of course it is the right account with the bikes VIN properly registered. Nevertheless it seems like the Varg app itself cannot see/access the Bluetooth connection from the bike as it will give the same error msg regardless if the bikes Bluetooth beacon is on or not (deep shutdown). Could it be, that the Varg remembers a Bluetooth connection from SVAG for example and the Varg app on a maiden Arkenstone that hadn't been paired before cannot "break" that link?

@brongle: if that's a feasible scenario is there any data I could provide to help clearing this issue?

Michael

drehwurm68 said:

Have you actually tried that? The navigation/map sucked my data volume empty within 2days of normal usage just with map downloads - afterwards you can't even use the navigation any more to get you home (had to open a hotspot with my personal phone). Apart from that the navigation is very basic, you can't set waypoints nor navigate towards them for example. That's not worth the subscription.


I spent close to 1600€ for a KESS3 to have total control over the KTM tpi/tbi ECU and it was well worth to me - just a hint Brongle

But back on topic.

I just got my replacement Arkenstone and the app will not connect to the bike - says "Vehicle not associated with this account". All the usual tricks and tips (deep shutdown, ...) have been done, the Arkenstone can actually see the bike on Bluetooth and even connect with the pin provided by SVAG and of course it is the right account with the bikes VIN properly registered. Nevertheless it seems like the Varg app itself cannot see/access the Bluetooth connection from the bike as it will give the same error msg regardless if the bikes Bluetooth beacon is on or not (deep shutdown). Could it be, that the Varg remembers a Bluetooth connection from SVAG for example and the Varg app on a maiden Arkenstone that hadn't been paired before cannot "break" that link?

@brongle: if that's a feasible scenario is there any data I could provide to help clearing this issue?

Michael

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Did you kill every instance of the svag app on other phones before trying to connect? If there is an instance running (even in background) the bike won't connect to another device.

Has anyone tried to install Stark Varg app on another Android phone?
I gave it a good try but without success.
Older version 1.0.187 will install, but it doesn't connect to the EX. Supposedly works with the MX.

OpaTsupa said:

Has anyone tried to install Stark Varg app on another Android phone?
I gave it a good try but without success.
Older version 1.0.187 will install, but it doesn't connect to the EX. Supposedly works with the MX.

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Runs on my S23 Ultra just fine. Should work on any android phone as far as I'm aware. good to have a backup if the arkenstone gets broken, lost or stolen.

Stark support got back to me and most probably it is not a Bluetooth/SVAG issue. They said that for the app to be able to connect to the bike the Arkenstones serial# and Varg VIN have to be linked to each other in their database. Now why they don't do this automatically or at least give you an option to request it when ordering the phone is beyond me. On the other hand you have to give credit where credit is due and Stark support was extremely responsive this time. Placed the initial request Thursday evening after their working hours and got the first reply 7:30 today. Sent them the serial# and 20mins later got the confirmation that the data in database is now updated and everything should work. Will know tomorrow.

Michael

drehwurm68 said:

Stark support got back to me and most probably it is not a Bluetooth/SVAG issue. They said that for the app to be able to connect to the bike the Arkenstones serial# and Varg VIN have to be linked to each other in their database. Now why they don't do this automatically or at least give you an option to request it when ordering the phone is beyond me. On the other hand you have to give credit where credit is due and Stark support was extremely responsive this time. Placed the initial request Thursday evening after their working hours and got the first reply 7:30 today. Sent them the serial# and 20mins later got the confirmation that the data in database is now updated and everything should work. Will know tomorrow.

Michael

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To be fair, this fact is in their FAQ or Technical support page.

DaveAusNor said:

Runs on my S23 Ultra just fine. Should work on any android phone as far as I'm aware. good to have a backup if the arkenstone gets broken, lost or stolen.

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How? Are you referring to the old version 1.0.187?

OpaTsupa said:

To be fair, this fact is in their FAQ or Technical support page.

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Thanks for pointing that out. SAM will say something about it when specifically asked, but I didn't find it in the troubleshooting FAQ even though there is a point about replacement phones. IMO they still could do better in the whole ordering process, but that's why we have this forum

Sorry for off topic.

Michael

OpaTsupa said:

How? Are you referring to the old version 1.0.187?

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Sorry, the current version. As far as i'm aware the app auto updates to the latest version when running it from my android phones.

Question?
Is the voltage of the 7.2 different than the 6.5 battery?
And all the other signals from and to the battery?
It looks as if the connectors could be swapped... Then there is only the issue of signaling.
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