24 Hours of Starvation Ridge in WA -- October 26 & 27, 2019 (new dates)

[snydes]

Did any of you guys do 2 consecutive laps on the Alta's? I'm guessing not, but wondering.

I'm not sure I agree with your "you won't be fast" statement, when I've been out and about on my street and dirt road rides, I've not been babying the throttle in 2-3 setting and as I mentioned I've been consistently getting 40 miles on a full charge. Out at Starvation Ridge there aren't too many spots that will see 40 mph speeds (if any, depends on the rider I guess), and there's plenty of sections where its semi tight single track, so speeds are fairly low there.

No. Only a few guys would have potentially had enough to do two and it would be scary close to not making it back IMO. Also it would have drastically confused our charging arrangement. I was riding pretty conservatively (slow) and only a few times did I come back over 50%. You are doing exceptionally good if you are consistently getting 40 miles on your bike. Our average lap times were probably in the 45 minute range, Matt pulled a 32 one time and I took 1 hour 20 minutes when I went out in the middle of the thunderstorm. I think that ride I had 60(ish)% left.

 

[F451]

No. Only a few guys would have potentially had enough to do two and it would be scary close to not making it back IMO. Also it would have drastically confused our charging arrangement. I was riding pretty conservatively (slow) and only a few times did I come back over 50%. You are doing exceptionally good if you are consistently getting 40 miles on your bike. Our average lap times were probably in the 45 minute range, Matt pulled a 32 one time and I took 1 hour 20 minutes when I went out in the middle of the thunderstorm. I think that ride I had 60(ish)% left.

Very interesting, thanks for the info. The Starvation Ridge laps times have historically been around 45 - 70 mins, with outliers to the far end each way depending on speed and other variables.

We may need to get someone out there for one of their events on the Starvation Ridge course to run some laps before committing teams to the 24 hr race, would be a bummer to put in all that effort to find out the bikes can't complete a 20 mile lap at an off-road race pace.

I'm having a hard time reconciling how I'm getting 40 miles per charge consistently, and how I couldn't get 20 miles at an off road race pace. And I've regularly been getting 15 miles of so of semi-fast trail riding in and having 3/4 - 2/3 charge left. Based on my trail riding I've been thinking 20 mile off road race range no problem. Hmm...

 

[snydes]

Very interesting, thanks for the info. The Starvation Ridge laps times have historically been around 45 - 70 mins, with outliers to the far end each way depending on speed and other variables.

We may need to get someone out there for one of their events on the Starvation Ridge course to run some laps before committing teams to the 24 hr race, would be a bummer to put in all that effort to find out the bikes can't complete a 20 mile lap at an off-road race pace.

I'm having a hard time reconciling how I'm getting 40 miles per charge consistently, and how I couldn't get 20 miles at an off road race pace. And I've regularly been getting 15 miles of so of semi-fast trail riding in and having 3/4 - 2/3 charge left. Based on my trail riding I've been thinking 20 mile off road race range no problem. Hmm...

I would agree with your logic myself prior to this event. Our course had a mix of single track and fairly open sections and also some decent elevation change. @Matt can comment on the elevation changes as he was tracking that as well as speed. The other thing to factor in is self restraint. It’s hard to not get caught up in the moment and get heavy on the throttle, which can have a huge impact on range (obviously). With 6 guys on Altas, we did get some very valuable data that hopefully you guys can put to use for your event. I’ll be watching this thread and throwing in my .02 cents FWIW. A trial run of that area would be huge for you guys in developing a game plan.

 

[F451]

Yes, the keeping yourself in check with the throttle I think would be very difficult to do, after all it is a race! Lol.

Even for a slow poke like myself, on my ICE bike, if I see someone I think I can pass I'm on it for all I'm worth. Especially since that doesn't happened too often, Lol.

No seriously, when I've heard someone gaining on my I've tried to hold them off as long as I can, unless of course its some really fast guy, then I just hold my line and let them blow by me safely. But for anyone that is around my speed, IT'S ON! Same if I see some poor slow poke way ahead, as soon as I see them I'm thinking I'm going to get them, until I overshoot the next corner or whiskey throttle off course, ha ha.

And really appreciate the input, lots of good info to come out of you guys from the NE 24 race - great job on it btw, much respect!

 

[Philip]

I too was not flowing smoothly on my first lap, compensating for it with harder accelerations and harder braking, and end up using 2/3 of the battery over the 11-mile mostly dry course. Later in the race it became closer to 50% of the battery, even in muddy conditions. I was always in Map 2.

We did have thoughts about going out and trying two laps but decided we didn't want to risk being again "those Alta guys stuck on course with a dead battery".

 

[Bloak]

I'm having a hard time reconciling how I'm getting 40 miles per charge consistently, and how I couldn't get 20 miles at an off road race pace. And I've regularly been getting 15 miles of so of semi-fast trail riding in and having 3/4 - 2/3 charge left...

Maybe your odometer is on km and not miles?

 

[Philip]

I too can do 40 miles trail riding familiar trails at a leisurely pace. But on a motocross track is has never been over 19 miles. Same when racing and pushing hard in the woods, I suppose.

 

[Philip]

I would mandate Map 1 for all of you Starvation Ridge racers, until you start seeing not dead batteries at the finish line.

 

[revoltlution]

I'm having a hard time reconciling how I'm getting 40 miles per charge consistently, and how I couldn't get 20 miles at an off road race pace. And I've regularly been getting 15 miles of so of semi-fast trail riding in and having 3/4 - 2/3 charge left. Based on my trail riding I've been thinking 20 mile off road race range no problem. Hmm...

I don't think I've ever "gently" squeezed more than 35 miles out of my EXR. Sounds like we need to organize a PNW Alta ride to calibrate our gauges... i.e. Ride the same trails at same pace.

 

[Philip]

I don't think I've ever "gently" squeezed more than 35 miles out of my EXR. Sounds like we need to organize a PNW Alta ride to calibrate our gauges... i.e. Ride the same trails at same pace.

I'd say race each other at a 90% effort, which could be sustained for several hours.

 

[leeo45]

It takes a significant change to riding style and it will slow your lap times a bit, but you can help your range by staying off the brakes as much as possible and using the regen "engine braking". I have never done any controlled experiments but I'm guessing at least a 20% range improvement due to the regen and the smoother riding style this method dictates. However, even doing this almost exclusively, plus riding in Mode 1 and avoiding wheel spin as much as possible, I only make about 33 miles when riding a reasonably brisk pace on hilly single-track/double-track trails. This applies to both my EXR and MXR.

There were a few other threads where people talked about the range of their bikes, however it certainly makes sense for anyone considering one of these races to get out and make a few full battery test runs. We always did that with our ICE bikes for the 24 hour races so that we would know the lap limit for each rider. And then we tracked consumption during the races for each rider in case conditions, rider inputs, or the engine efficiency changed. Remember that your range may decline if conditions are hot and you may also want to confirm that your odometer is reasonably accurate while you are making the test runs.

 

[Matt]

Of the 6 runs I did 4 came back just a hair under 50% left, 1 came back about 35-40 percent left and one came back a little over 50%. On the fastest lap I did I was in map 3 almost the whole time which is when I came back with 35-40 percent. On the others I was in map 1 in the woods and map 3 in the fields and fast sections. I will post the speed and elevation chartd of my fastest lap and the lap I used the least charge on.

 

[Matt]

 

[Matt]

Fastest Lap:

 

[Matt]

Slowest Lap and came back with over 50% charge. It is worth noting this was the muddiest lap as well. I was also the most tired and it was my last lap.

 

[OneLapper]

Dare I say I have the most riding with trying to get as much mileage out of my Alta, regularly getting 42 miles, and once getting 46 or 47 miles out of charge.

I have spent a lot of time developing my riding skills to conserve energy, and I think I have gotten to the point where I can see an improvement.

Here's my take:

Avoid wheel spin. The rate of acceleration isn't as much as a factor (for EVs) as is the wheel spin up when traction is lost. Accelerate as quickly as you can without wheel spin. Get up that hill as best you can without wheel spin.

Avoid the brakes: Use the regen and take that corner faster than you think you should. Obviously you need to use your brakes, but keep the question in mind, "Do I NEED to use my brakes?". My son keeps the throttle pinned and uses the rear brake to make minor adjustments. He rips through pads and rotors! Don't be my son.

That's it. Make those two changes to your riding style and you'll see an improvement in range.

@snydes , we should have recorded SOC on everyones laps! That would have given us some really good data to ponder

 

[Matt]

@snydes , we should have recorded SOC on everyones laps! That would have given us some really good data to ponder[/QUOTE]

I have all of my SOC points after each outing. It didn't change all that much with my fastest lap as the exception. I also have the speed I was traveling and we know the conditions.

 

[OneLapper]

@snydes , we should have recorded SOC on everyones laps! That would have given us some really good data to ponder

I have all of my SOC points after each outing. It didn't change all that much with my fastest lap as the exception. I also have the speed I was traveling and we know the conditions.[/QUOTE]


Cool! With the exception of the very first lap, all subsequent lap time include the time for the rider to enter to enter the pits, drive 10mph, swap the transponder, then for the next rider to drive 10mph to the track entrance. Based on our times, and my son's team, that took approx. 2:21 to do.

 

[C5tor]

Very interesting, thanks for the info. The Starvation Ridge laps times have historically been around 45 - 70 mins, with outliers to the far end each way depending on speed and other variables.

We may need to get someone out there for one of their events on the Starvation Ridge course to run some laps before committing teams to the 24 hr race, would be a bummer to put in all that effort to find out the bikes can't complete a 20 mile lap at an off-road race pace.

I'm having a hard time reconciling how I'm getting 40 miles per charge consistently, and how I couldn't get 20 miles at an off road race pace. And I've regularly been getting 15 miles of so of semi-fast trail riding in and having 3/4 - 2/3 charge left. Based on my trail riding I've been thinking 20 mile off road race range no problem. Hmm...

Just as an observation, my SOC numbers are almost identical to @F451 . I typically ride for about 15 miles at a time, using about 1/4 to 1/3 of my battery. But keep in mind I'm riding like a timid 6 year old girl with training wheels on, mostly map 1 with occasional crazy forays into map 2. I should also note the I've been riding mostly very steep hills, so although I go relatively fast up the hills, I probably am on regen coming down the hills at least 40% of the time. Frankly surprising sometimes that I don't have 120% battery when I get back! My longest offroad ride so far has been 21 miles, riding quite a bit faster than I usually do (I didn't have kids in tow) and I had right about 50% battery left.

Anyway, just though I'd comment on my observations, even though my riding style is about as far from race speed as you can get and still have positive velocity.

Also, I thought I'd ask if anyone has taken a look at their logs from MultiTool after the race. Perhaps some of those data points from the logs might give you some insights into battery consumption, how much time you were on the throttle, that kind of thing. I haven't looked in detail at the data it records, but it looked like a lot of interesting stuff like that.

 

[bluefxstc]

Who is still up for this? At last count we had 10 owners who had expressed an interest in riding this. Me, @Silent But Dirty @ElectroBraap @revoltlution @Bionicman @Redwolf @Mark911 @Speedkills @SuburbanDad @p0wn listed in sign up order. @TCMB371 also expressed an interest but it was dependent on where he was living, minor technical issue. I mean really, what difference does it make where you live when you get to race/ride your Alta with a bunch of other crazy Alta owners. Assuming everyone is still in that is 11 with Tcmb. Certainly, enough for 2 teams, one more and we can have 2 teams of 6. I am thinking a slow team and a fast team if we can generate enough interest. A team of 5 may push the charging between laps, but probably OK for the slow team. The race is Oct 26 & 27 so probably time to start planning. You can find more info here. Who is in? Who else is interested, any and all Alta riders are welcome? @F451 @Rix @C5tor @schwankl @Dirkdiggler @doublegunner @bsatt69 I looked on the member map and started listing members, but too many to list them all, everyone is welcome.