BAD NEWS

[Rob41]

I'm glad people are remaining optimistic and I hope this all ends well but here is the biggest concern I have with all of this.

If GM folded tomorrow, the dealerships still have the ability to troubleshoot and repair the vehicle. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if something in the programming/battery management fails on an Alta, the dealer has no way to perform programming or even run diagnostic software. Doesn't that rely on the dealer connecting the bike to Alta headquarters?

To be honest, I hope one of the big players buys Alta and hopefully they will do two things. Keep the current bikes basically unchanged and provide support for all current Alta owners. I very much look forward to Alta V2.

Aside from that, the ability to troubleshoot these bikes electronics/programming outside of a cooperate headquarters is a must. I used to think the range was the biggest detractor but It looks like I was wrong.

 

[Mark911]

I'm really surprised that the executives at Alta would depend on a funding agreement between parties where one party could pull out so easily or without substantial (enough to continue operations for months) penalties. That's just cutting things way too close and poor negotiations. These things don't just "sneak up" and surprise you at the last minute (or shouldn't).

Anyway, I hope they survive, but either way I'm not too worried. Other than the frame and swingarm, there's nothing on the current models that can't be rebuilt, replaced or replicated, most at reasonable cost. Eventually the code will be reversed engineered and that'll be the last piece of the puzzle as many companies (Ti for example) produce the necessary FOC and SVM motor control components/circuitry. Just need the speed control algorithms and lookup table data. Same goes for the BMS subsystem.

 

[BenEXR]

This is the best summary I have seen yet: https://cleantechnica.com/2018/10/2...-of-electric-motorcycles-disruption-startups/

The article's bottom line, just not enough demand.

 

[privateer703]

I read that article and I don't really agree. A major point of the article was that Alta only focused on racing MX's, which is untrue. They have a dual sport and an SM and were working on another road bike. I also disagree that there is not enough demand, with growth numbers that they've reported, the extremely low availability of bikes available for purchase and the backlog all say otherwise. Any company in their 2nd year of sales showing numbers like that tells me it's not sales or demand. I'm positive the issue is the extreme demand on R&D capital it takes to get to where they are now. I'm sure they spent a whopping amount of money just to get to the market. It almost always takes more than 2 years (usually more like 5-10) to get out of the hole you dig when you have a lot of spending to do up front before you start turning a profit. Just my opinion. This is coming from someone who STILL wants to buy one of these in a terrible way but I couldn't because demand is so high there aren't any to buy.

 

[BenEXR]

There is this old line that is relevant to all that has happened with Alta Motors so far and it goes: "There are very few problems in this world that can't be solved with money. The problems begin when there is no money."

The problem is that despite all the angles, all the views and perspectives, all the science, facts, production and technology-ALL of it, if the people who have the money to invest, won't give up their money because there is NO clear path to profit . . . No money = No Alta.

I also want an EXR, badly. I hope that either the EXR survives or a V2/GenII is made as it will be/would be my next, and maybe last, bike.

 

[snydes]

There is this old line that is relevant to all that has happened with Alta Motors so far and it goes: "There are very few problems in this world that can't be solved with money. The problems begin when there is no money."

The problem is that despite all the angles, all the views and perspectives, all the science, facts, production and technology-ALL of it, if the people who have the money to invest, won't give up their money because there is NO clear path to profit . . . No money = No Alta.

Do we know that the people who have the money to invest are not interested? No, we do not. All we know is Harley, who wasn’t exactly in great shape to begin with for reasons not yet made public, pulled out of their deal with Alta and put them in a bind. We don’t even know who initiated that split though likely not Alta. What we have left is a lot of rumors and speculation.

Ben (and don’t take offense please), we have seen you go from extremely enthusiastic about these bikes to what seems like continually convincing yourself that they are a terrible mistake... and I get that. If I was in your shoes I would have called the deal off as well and would be feeling good about my choice. At the end of the day we have a lot of owners on here. The bulk of us are trying to remain positive that there will be an outcome that doesn’t leave us with expensive garage ornaments. Let’s hope.

 

[Philip]

This is the best summary I have seen yet: https://cleantechnica.com/2018/10/2...-of-electric-motorcycles-disruption-startups/

The article's bottom line, just not enough demand.

This is a pretty poor analysis. Pseudo science. They try to dig into the practical uses of dirt bikes, WTH? How many people buy boats for commuting? They compare Alta to $5,000 dollar electric bicycles, saying that this is their competition. Clearly, they have no idea what they are talking about.

 

[snydes]

Here’s some more speculation: https://cleantechnica.com/2018/10/2...-of-electric-motorcycles-disruption-startups/

That’s the one Ben was just speaking of a few posts up.

 

[bluefxstc]

I think it is important to note that we haven't heard, or at least I haven't heard, any information on Alta declaring bankruptcy. No word on them declaring chapter 7 (gone) or chapter 11 (reorganization). All they have done is shut down operations, probably to conserve cash, while they try to arrange more funding. While that sucks for the employees and Alta's image has taken a hit, at this point, I have heard nothing about them going out of business. I agree that it is not a positive development, but it seems a reasonable action to minimize the cash outflows while you secure more funding. Alta has a great product and technology, so I feel there is probably a way out for them. If they were closing down permanently, I think we would have heard about a chapter 7 filing by now. With that said, I am going to take the EX out riding. Sun is out, trees are changing and it is great riding weather in the northwest US.

 

[dgedition]

I think it is important to note that we haven't heard, or at least I haven't heard, any information on Alta declaring bankruptcy. No word on them declaring chapter 7 (gone) or chapter 11 (reorganization). All they have done is shut down operations, probably to conserve cash, while they try to arrange more funding. While that sucks for the employees and Alta's image has taken a hit, at this point, I have heard nothing about them going out of business. I agree that it is not a positive development, but it seems a reasonable action to minimize the cash outflows while you secure more funding. Alta has a great product and technology, so I feel there is probably a way out for them. If they were closing down permanently, I think we would have heard about a chapter 7 filing by now. With that said, I am going to take the EX out riding. Sun is out, trees are changing and it is great riding weather in the northwest US.

You are definitely correct with that thought. I deal or deals are still in the works since typically chapter fillings begin immediately when a company closes doors.

 

[BenEXR]

Do we know that the people who have the money to invest are not interested? No, we do not. All we know is Harley, who wasn’t exactly in great shape to begin with for reasons not yet made public, pulled out of their deal with Alta and put them in a bind. We don’t even know who initiated that split though likely not Alta. What we have left is a lot of rumors and speculation.

Ben (and don’t take offense please), we have seen you go from extremely enthusiastic about these bikes to what seems like continually convincing yourself that they are a terrible mistake... and I get that. If I was in your shoes I would have called the deal off as well and would be feeling good about my choice. At the end of the day we have a lot of owners on here. The bulk of us are trying to remain positive that there will be an outcome that doesn’t leave us with expensive garage ornaments. Let’s hope.

No, no offense taken. All my thoughts and opinions do is echo that of the author of the article that they had published on their companies website(adding to the speculation). The title someone chose to give this thread is "Bad News". Perhaps it might be re-named "Stay tuned for the truth-(followed by)-only speculate if it is positive speculation. Negative speculation not welcomed". We are not talking about two sports teams and how they will perform or who will win and why for the upcoming game, or major league player negotiations, this is far more serious.

If I had bought the EXR like I was going to on 10/13/2018, my feelings would still be the exact same as I'm able to view all the sides and possibilities knowing that no matter what I think or type is NOT going to change one, single, thing anymore than me cheering on a sports team on TV is going to help them win. I'm more realistic than that. I'd also still be loving the bike 100% and would worry about all the what if's as they came.


My hope is that they do come back. My hope is that there will be more customers that will buy in and that the GenII/V.2 is better than the current MXR/EXR-down the road.

 

[SuburbanDad]

...
My hope is that they do come back. My hope is that there will be more customers that will buy in and that the GenII/V.2 is better than the current MXR/EXR-down the road.

Personally, I am glad I was able to get one when I could. I definitely would prefer them to succeed and keep the supply chain live, but I got the bike I wanted and it has been glorious for the last 18 months or so.

I will definitely be on the prowl for consumables that will be rare in the future. However, zero regrets. And I am saying that as an early customer that paid $15k for a 2017 MX.

 

[TCMB371]

I called my dealer today asking about the parts I ordered back on the day the news broke. The order is still sitting in "Pending Approval" status. Not looking good. I'd imagine there is no one in the parts/shipping department at Alta right now.

 

[magatta]

Personally, I am glad I was able to get one when I could. I definitely would prefer them to succeed and keep the supply chain live, but I got the bike I wanted and it has been glorious for the last 18 months or so.

I will definitely be on the prowl for consumables that will be rare in the future. However, zero regrets. And I am saying that as an early customer that paid $15k for a 2017 MX.

Me too, just wish I could have gotten 2, or 3 or more...

 

[leeo45]

Me too, just wish I could have gotten 2, or 3 or more...

It's interesting that some of us who already own these bikes are thinking this way. I have started actively looking for an SM. I don't know how seriously yet, but if I can find a good deal on one of these worthless ALTAs* I would probably jump.

* frequently seen internet perspective since last Thursday

 

[Scott]

If Alta does close I will regrettably be selling my 2018 MXR with 7.3 hours on it. It has a new battery pack with one ride on it. I really would rather that Alta lives on as the MXR by far the most fun dirt bike that I have owned. Also, it does not get mentioned enough about the very minimum amount of maintenance required to keep it at peak performance and the fact that you will never have to to a top/bottom end, replace a clutch pack, spark plug, transmission gears, etc. I would argue that over time an ICE bike is far more expensive to own.

Here's to hoping Alta will live on.

 

[Altaracer929]

This is the best summary I have seen yet: https://cleantechnica.com/2018/10/2...-of-electric-motorcycles-disruption-startups/

The article's bottom line, just not enough demand.

OMG Michael Bernard the Idiot author really has no understanding or any real facts about Alta motors. The charts and diagrams do not even make sense and are based on no facts. Non fact based news, made up story facts and bad journalism reporting at it's best.

 

[Philip]

"The time to buy is when there's blood in the streets."

- Baron Rothschild

 

[Rocketz152]

I keep thinking that we weren’t supposed to find out as soon as we did about Alta shutting down production... if money was such a big issue you would think that people that worked at Alta would be spreading rumors of the impending doom... leading up to a closing of the company... The fact that a lot of us found out before dealers did shows the decision was spur of the moment IMO... Still hoping that our bike doesn’t go extinct...

 

[snydes]

I don’t think either they wanted to broadcast the production freeze, I wouldn’t see what benefit that would have been. Too hard to keep these things under wraps I suppose.