EX Android app

[Theo]

First of all, what I'm going to state is still moot since I've never set any power curve in my life.

The top speed of the Varg EX according to the manual is 129 kmph, I guess at 14K rpm, so 140 kmph @14 K rpm approximates reality, then you can roughly say that every 1K rpm is roughly 10 kmph, so for example you are roughly at 30 kmph @ 3K rpm.

so how would you configure a throttle curve making it most easy to lift th front wheel with 40hp max? Imho max hp at the beginning? Like shown in the pic?
View attachment 13361

This looks sensible to me, since like this the bike would behave like @80 HP up to 3K, giving a constant very strong push and then it would become weaker.

or would you even go above 40 hp like this`?
View attachment 13363

This looks like it would push very hard up to like 50 kmph and then it would feel like it has lost power: I think this would feel wrong. It's interesting how the software shows a section of the grey line beyond the red line to link the points without creating angles.

Personally, I would try something more like this shape:

I wish Stark had shown the Torque plot instead or in addition to the HP plot.

I agree especially considering that you can't change torque by shifting gears on a Varg anyways; torque is also directly proportional to the propulsion that the motorcycle receives.
The red line here shows what the torque line would look like with power line set to maximum at all RPM in the Varg app:

source
The image is actually referred to an internal magnet motor and not a surface magnet motor like the one in the Varg but the shapes of the two lines should hold good for us, too.

As I've written, a linear power curve means constant torque and therefore constant push but I suspect that it wouldn't be felt as constant. As far as I know, the brain perceives stimuli in a logarithmic way and not linearly (searching the internet fot Weber-Fechner law can lead you to interesing results about this). So, for example, we perceive sound levels logarithmically and, in order to compensate for this, behind the volume knobs of any stereo system there usually is an exponential potentiometer. Now if the power curve is exponential this doesn't mean that the torque will be exactly exponential but it will still be somehow similar. So I would say that a straight power line gives constant propulsion but maybe an exponential one gives the perception of constant propulsion. This can be affected by the fact that we also perceive a speed increase at the same time in which we feel the push, we are not stationary, then maybe that would compensate fot the logarithmic perception and a constant push would just feel like constant.
And then at higher speed you want power to increase a lot to compensate for the exponentially increasing and not negligible any more air drag.
So moot, I'd like to try changing curves.

I have a TORP TC500 in my Surron Lightbee (72V).
The throttle response is very easy to set with adjusting the curve in the diagram by one finger.
To get a "push" when you open the throttle the first part of the curve must be steep (exponential).
Later linear (proportional). More flat!
This way you can create a kind of "clutch flip" when you open the throttle fast.

Is the throttle response adjusted as power vs throttle position in that case?

 

[Hinkelstein]

For easier wheelies I would guess stick to the red curve from the beginning until maybe 2-3k rpm... hard to say if you don't know at which rpm you are when you quickly open the throttle in an effort to lift the front wheel.
Then of course that would be your wheelie map but could cause some issues in other situations.

Does 60 hp standard map hug the red line initially?

Another way to look at it could be to mimick standard 60 hp or 80 hp map at low rpm then revert to something like standard 40 hp for higher rpm. This should get you snappy 40 hp don't you think?

unfortunately, the photo I posted is the only default chart they show. So I cannot say what the 60 or 80 hp standard map looks like, it shows the same 34 hp map on every mode.

 

[Chadx]

So is that hp setting/adjustment chart based on, and only showing, hp at a given rpm at WOT? Setting hp by rpm seems like it will not get us where we want since we want a pop whether we are at 1,000, 3,000 or 5,000rpm, but changing hp will impact the ridability elsewhere. Seems we are missing the ability to change responsiveness based on throttle opening/position which is what we are really needing.

I'd want to be able to adjust abruptness of the hit, but not change hp. For example, have two modes set to 48 hp, but one 48hp map set super snappy and immediate and the other 48hp map set for a soft ramp up.

Maybe that type of adjustment is possible with the settings being discussed, but it doesn't seem as intuitive as a simple adjustment for throttle response.

 

[mike61]

Is the throttle response adjusted as power vs throttle position in that case?

I don't know!
I suppose to adjust the current in the controller.
Important for me!! It works!

The menu on the VARG display looks a bit different.
I'm sure soon we will get the first results of changing the mapping for throttle response!
Maybe we'll see it on a tutorial video soon.

 

[DaveAusNor]

Seems we are missing the ability to change responsiveness based on throttle opening/position which is what we are really needing.

I 100% agree. This is the real need

 

[Hinkelstein]

I 100% agree. This is the real need

I agree. What we want is a throttle with nonlinear characteristics so maybe with a steeper curve at the beginning and than flattening and what we got seems to be kind of an adjustable dynochart :-(

 

[rayivers]

I 100% agree. This is the real need

+1 as well. Maybe the rpm-based adjustment is more intuitive to ICE riders, but not to me.

 

[Hinkelstein]

+1 as well. Maybe the rpm-based adjustment is more intuitive to ICE riders, but not to me.

yes. And even ICE Bikes have the possibility to adjust throttle response with different pieces leading the throttle cable.

 

[Philip]

yes. And even ICE Bikes have the possibility to adjust throttle response with different pieces leading the throttle cable.

Back in the day, when we raced ICE bikes on ice back in Russia in the 80's, we would install longer throttles just for the winter.

A shorter throttle than the stock Stark's won't help you pop a wheelie if you are in the 40-hp mode. You need more HP/torque. But maybe you can ride in the 80-hp mode with a longer throttle! Folks kept those long throttles on their 500cc bikes even for the summer. Maybe you trail-riding guys need longer throttles.

 

[Theo]

A shorter throttle than the stock Stark's won't help you pop a wheelie if you are in the 40-hp mode. You need more HP/torque.

I guess so, but on the other hand one would tend to think that you can do wonders with electronic devices since it's "just" a matter of programming them, so physical modifications should be needed seldom.
The throttle could be adjusted so that up to a certain opening it behaves like in a certain power setting and past it in another one.
For example, @ 2K rpm the maximum power available looks something like 23 hp, then:
when the throttle is less than 80% open, behave like the maximum power were set at 14 hp
past 90%, behave like it were set to 23 hp
between 80% and 90%, transition zone
This looks a little bit like setting a throttle curve for PC racing simulators.

 

[Erwin P]

Now, if only we could tell which RPM we are at in each section of the track...

Is lineair with wheel speed though.

 

[Philip]

Is lineair with wheel speed though.

Have you ever tried riding a motocross track and watching your digital speedometer at the same time? I will never be able to do this when attacking a turn or when accelerating for a big jump.

If we eventually get data logging, this will all be possible. But right now we might have to install some third party inertial/GPS data logging apps.

LapTrophy and RacerChrono seem to be the best. I wonder if I could get one of them to tell me my lap times through Bluetooth ear buds?

 

[Erwin P]

It does datalog, kinda. It works shitty on my Stark MX.
I also have an action cam that i mount on my helmet, point it down and i could actually check the speed afterwards.

I'm more of empirical testing anyways. I would love the option to make a ''wheelie over obstacles map'' that would drop to very low power at certain speeds. The whiskey throttle is real on the Stark, one of the very few downsides of not having a clutch (it drags straight trough the rear brake).

 

[DaveAusNor]

Have you ever tried riding a motocross track and watching your digital speedometer at the same time? I will never be able to do this when attacking a turn or when accelerating for a big jump.

If we eventually get data logging, this will all be possible. But right now we might have to install some third party inertial/GPS data logging apps.

LapTrophy and RacerChrono seem to be the best. I wonder if I could get one of them to tell me my lap times through Bluetooth ear buds?

Strava will tell you lap times through earbuds

 

[DaveAusNor]

It does datalog, kinda. It works shitty on my Stark MX.
I also have an action cam that i mount on my helmet, point it down and i could actually check the speed afterwards.

I'm more of empirical testing anyways. I would love the option to make a ''wheelie over obstacles map'' that would drop to very low power at certain speeds. The whiskey throttle is real on the Stark, one of the very few downsides of not having a clutch (it drags straight trough the rear brake).

Here's a wild idea for anyone willing to experiment. Reverse the throttle action such that a whiskey throttle actually closes the throttle. You'd have to roll it forward to accelerate though and it would be tough fighting years of muscle memory

 

[Hinkelstein]

Here's a wild idea for anyone willing to experiment. Reverse the throttle action such that a whiskey throttle actually closes the throttle. You'd have to roll it forward to accelerate though and it would be tough fighting years of muscle memory

yeah, just mount the throttle tube to the left side of the handlebar and it will work like this

 

[Theo]

Have you ever tried riding a motocross track and watching your digital speedometer at the same time? I will never be able to do this when attacking a turn or when accelerating for a big jump.

I agree, besides the speed on our speedometer is based on the wheel speed and I think that the reason for which I have recorded top speeds like 80 - 90 mph is revving in the air. I think that in motocross wheel slippage is too high to rely on wheel speed for power curves.
Hopefully if we will get a tracking function from the Varg app it will be based on GPS.

LapTrophy and RacerChrono seem to be the best.

I tried RaceChrono years ago and I liked it, but in certain situations I got unrealistic data I think because of the low refresh rate of the GPS receiver in the phone I used back then.
More recentrly, I've tried Track Addict and I like it more. I've never used those apps with the Varg, though, since I mainly work on technique and not on speed like AJ Catanzaro suggests (I definetely need to work on techinque).