EX Custom iOS/Android App

Erwin P

Well-known member
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331
Location
Netherlands
I use the stock phone with stock app every single ride.

I have only used the app for testing so i would know it would work as a back-up if i would crash the Stark phone. Even if the app would only show state of charge i would have been happy.
 

Yieloficial

New member
Likes
1
Location
Córdoba España
Those that were actually true. Last few % charging took longer than it used to and disappeared quicker than before. I allready noticed it, but thought it might be in my head and didn't think to much of it at first.
Also this weekend i drained it below 20% and it did take a couple of tries to get it on afterwards. Got a red solid light when i pushed the button. A few tries later it worked though.

In the end i didn't lie, but also didn't bother to be so complete as to tell them about the app.
Hello Erwin thank you very much for posting your issues.
I have exactly the same Varg version MX2023, my warranty expired in november and I also have this two died cells.
How I have to proceed with stark??
I hope that they change my battery too. In my case, I have autocomsupmation. I charge my battery to 100% and it drops to 90% in one day stopped at my garage. Also autonomy is really low...

It only have 55hours of use...
 

brongle

Well-known member
Likes
54
Location
WA
Hello Erwin thank you very much for posting your issues.
I have exactly the same Varg version MX2023, my warranty expired in november and I also have this two died cells.
How I have to proceed with stark??
I hope that they change my battery too. In my case, I have autocomsupmation. I charge my battery to 100% and it drops to 90% in one day stopped at my garage. Also autonomy is really low...

It only have 55hours of use...
Out of curiosity which cell group numbers are they? Also when the percentage drops do you see a notable drop in pack voltage (like it's at 412v and ends up at 410v or 405v after one day) or is it just the percentage? When the bike is on (and maybe in-gear) could you screenshot the BMS+/BMS- data at the bottom of the service -> battery page.

If your warranty expired I'd be pretty much positive they won't touch the pack. You can buy the parts yourself but thats a hefty price and I'm not sure how that all works now with there "dealer is required" for pack replacements. Either way you could probably still try reaching out to them and ask if there is a problem or for more information.
 

Erwin P

Well-known member
Likes
331
Location
Netherlands
Hello Erwin thank you very much for posting your issues.
I have exactly the same Varg version MX2023, my warranty expired in november and I also have this two died cells.
How I have to proceed with stark??
I hope that they change my battery too. In my case, I have autocomsupmation. I charge my battery to 100% and it drops to 90% in one day stopped at my garage. Also autonomy is really low...

It only have 55hours of use...
Well, just tell them the truth excluding the app. Your case is a clear problem out of itself.
Just send them a solid email without drawing too much conclusions or being angry about it. In my experience they take some time to react, but have been very correct in their answers when you remain calm and polite.

@brongle
I think he means his warranty is expiring in november. We're not all native English speaker (most of us arn't) and not everything translates well;)
 

Yieloficial

New member
Likes
1
Location
Córdoba España
Out of curiosity which cell group numbers are they? Also when the percentage drops do you see a notable drop in pack voltage (like it's at 412v and ends up at 410v or 405v after one day) or is it just the percentage? When the bike is on (and maybe in-gear) could you screenshot the BMS+/BMS- data at the bottom of the service -> battery page.

If your warranty expired I'd be pretty much positive they won't touch the pack. You can buy the parts yourself but thats a hefty price and I'm not sure how that all works now with there "dealer is required" for pack replacements. Either way you could probably still try reaching out to them and ask if there is a problem or for more information.
Hello Brongle, first of all thank you very much for your incredible app...

The cells group are exactly the same as Erwin 41 and 42 groups.

Yes the porcentage drops and also the voltaje, for example I charged my bike to 400V 95% and the second week in standby the total voltaje was 388.5V. (78%).

Sorry for my English I´m from Spain. I want to say that my warranty is expiring in november 25.

Here they are my data from battery.

1758142747406.png1758142775221.png1758142801992.png
1758142833204.png1758142867627.png1758142890243.png1758142916152.png
 

Yieloficial

New member
Likes
1
Location
Córdoba España
Well, just tell them the truth excluding the app. Your case is a clear problem out of itself.
Just send them a solid email without drawing too much conclusions or being angry about it. In my experience they take some time to react, but have been very correct in their answers when you remain calm and polite.

@brongle
I think he means his warranty is expiring in november. We're not all native English speaker (most of us arn't) and not everything translates well;)
Hello Erwin I have contacted with stark and I have a video call with them today. (Yes really fast service for now). But I´m not happy at all.

That is the mail I sent:

Good afternoon,

I've noticed some strange behavior with my Stark's battery. I'll share my experience with this issue.

First of all, a few months ago I started noticing that charging with the charger seemed to be incomplete and that it was taking a little longer than usual. When it reaches the marked percentage, it stops charging, but a few minutes later it starts charging again, and this happens several times, as if the charge is never complete.

I thought it was just me and didn't give it much importance.

On another occasion, I was doing a leisurely enduro ride, on super dry terrain and at an average speed of 15 km/h. I had completed 28 km, had 17% battery left, and the bike stopped dead, with no connection. After a few minutes, it started working again, and I was able to return home.

When I got home and connected the charger, the bike didn't do anything, didn't react at all, was completely off. I tried pressing the button several times, connecting and disconnecting the charger several times, and finally, after the fifth or sixth attempt, it started charging.

The bike only travels 35 km in light enduro mode, without any acceleration on trails and paths. It averages 15 km/h at 35/40 hp.

Another thing I've noticed is that the bike consumes a lot of battery power itself. I charge the battery to 100%, leave it unused in the garage for two weeks, and when I check the battery percentage again, it can be around 75%/80%, meaning a 20% loss of charge without doing anything at all.

I hope you answer my question quickly. Thank you very much in advance!.

-----------------------------
I wrote all that in Spanish cause I thought the custormer service will be in spanish. They date me at 22 pm in Spain so I inmediatily think that they are not spanish.

We made the video call; obviously, he wasn't Spanish. He didn't know anything I had written in that email.

He quickly downloaded the data and initially said: the inverter is fine and the battery is also perfect. Then he remained silent for about 20 seconds and began telling me that there might be a cell imbalance problem.

I explained everything I had written in the email. To which he replied that everything was normal. Self-consumption is normal, blackouts are normal, and the battery at the top, only at that part, geting extremely hot when charging.

He told me it was true that there was a cell imbalance.
I asked him if it was possible that one or two of the cells was dead, as I had read that this problem has occurred in several models.
He insists they're unbalanced, but doesn't answer my question and gives me the following guidelines:

Charge the bike to 100%, discharge it to below 20%, and charge it back to 100%. After that, he should contact them again.

I tell him it's fine, but this is my usual usage, and I don't see much point in it since, as I mentioned, the bike only rides on very gentle enduros for more than 30 km.

Sorry for writing such long posts. Please let me know your opinion. I think they're going to avoid replacing the battery when it's obviously broken.

They did accept your battery replacement, right? Do you know if they'll send you the newer version with 7.5 kWh?
 

Erwin P

Well-known member
Likes
331
Location
Netherlands
They did accept the replacement. It will be the 6.5 since the 7.2 does not fit.

They asked me in the emails to balance charge first, but i could actually tell them that i allready did that, since i truly did.

The guy i spoke in the video call spoke with a Spanish accent.
 

Yieloficial

New member
Likes
1
Location
Córdoba España
They did accept the replacement. It will be the 6.5 since the 7.2 does not fit.

They asked me in the emails to balance charge first, but i could actually tell them that i allready did that, since i truly did.

The guy i spoke in the video call spoke with a Spanish accent.
is that balance charge the same process that they told me??
 

brongle

Well-known member
Likes
54
Location
WA
Interesting, thanks for sharing the screenshots. I still don't really understand how this failure mode could even happen, I can understand a single cell going bad but to consistently have two entire cell groups get disconnected seems very suspicious. It's also shocking this displays no errors to the user, doesn't fault the BMS, and seemingly doesn't raise alarm bells on Stark's diagnostics tools. I guess as an EX owner it's time to pray Stark somehow fixed this in the new packs, although that seems unlikely given it was supposedly just a cell upgrade.

From my understanding the vast majority of Stark's support staff are relatively non-technical so it's not too shocking they identified it as a cell imbalance, they probably can't even see the individual cell group voltages. The incoming support cases get triaged by this staff and then as needed some of Stark's actual engineering staff are brought in. I'm guessing that would be the next step after their bottom-balancing instructions inevitably fail for you, and hopefully then they can correctly diagnose the issue and get the pack warrantied.
 

Erwin P

Well-known member
Likes
331
Location
Netherlands
There are 2 coincidences here.
Both are the same cell groups and both are november 2023 models.

I do remember the "2nd gen" (the one that got a metal inverter cover) having a slightly different looking battery. So maybe this is a startup production issue and is fixed in newer models.
In the end it can also be just a weird coincidence.

As for the discharge over time. That can also be correct. In standby it still is sending out signals, it's still charging the phone, it's still blinking the red light etc. If i store it longer i do a hard shutdown to prevent this.
 

dezinfo

New member
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0
Location
Ukraine
Я не реализовал функции записи в VCU, такие как блокировка/разблокировка или зарядка/настройка карт, по нескольким причинам. Существует несколько повышенный риск выхода VCU из строя при записи данных, даже если я буду поддерживать всё в том же состоянии, что и стандартное приложение. Также существует проблема доступа, поскольку приложение Stark использует учётную запись для ограничения доступа к транспортному средству (например, для подтверждения того, что транспортное средство, которое находится перед ним, принадлежит другому человеку). В моей версии вы сможете подойти к любому запертому мотоциклу и разблокировать его (или, если это реализовано, отредактировать карты/другие настройки), что, к сожалению, соответствует стандарту безопасности, выбранному Stark.
It's absolutely essential to implement a map editing feature in the app. Everything else is unimportant.
 

Yieloficial

New member
Likes
1
Location
Córdoba España
Interesting, thanks for sharing the screenshots. I still don't really understand how this failure mode could even happen, I can understand a single cell going bad but to consistently have two entire cell groups get disconnected seems very suspicious. It's also shocking this displays no errors to the user, doesn't fault the BMS, and seemingly doesn't raise alarm bells on Stark's diagnostics tools. I guess as an EX owner it's time to pray Stark somehow fixed this in the new packs, although that seems unlikely given it was supposedly just a cell upgrade.

From my understanding the vast majority of Stark's support staff are relatively non-technical so it's not too shocking they identified it as a cell imbalance, they probably can't even see the individual cell group voltages. The incoming support cases get triaged by this staff and then as needed some of Stark's actual engineering staff are brought in. I'm guessing that would be the next step after their bottom-balancing instructions inevitably fail for you, and hopefully then they can correctly diagnose the issue and get the pack warrantied.
Hello Brongle I will do a test ride this afternoon, how do you do this graphics that you show on the YouTube video of your app?? Maybe I can obtain some interesting data of that test recording all this data.

could we know the total hour of use of our bike using your app??
 

brongle

Well-known member
Likes
54
Location
WA
Hello Brongle I will do a test ride this afternoon, how do you do this graphics that you show on the YouTube video of your app?? Maybe I can obtain some interesting data of that test recording all this data.

could we know the total hour of use of our bike using your app??
If you record rides and export them (as STF, not GPX), you can open up the viewer webpage and simply drag/drop the file on there which will display a map and a bunch of graphs you can use for analyising the ride-data, I assume this is what your talking about from my video? The recording mode is mostly complete, only really missing a way to automatically record rides when the bike is turned on. The viewer app itself needs a lot of work so right now it'll just give you a few charts based on the telemetry data and sync them up against a map of the GPS track.

Hours are calculated based on the Stark phone recording rides so it's not a value I can read off the VCU, and if you ride without the stock Stark phone/app the hours won't increase. I'd recommend using the odometer for service intervals as even with just the stock Stark experience the hours meter will be pretty inaccurate.
 

Yieloficial

New member
Likes
1
Location
Córdoba España
If you record rides and export them (as STF, not GPX), you can open up the viewer webpage and simply drag/drop the file on there which will display a map and a bunch of graphs you can use for analyising the ride-data, I assume this is what your talking about from my video? The recording mode is mostly complete, only really missing a way to automatically record rides when the bike is turned on. The viewer app itself needs a lot of work so right now it'll just give you a few charts based on the telemetry data and sync them up against a map of the GPS track.

Hours are calculated based on the Stark phone recording rides so it's not a value I can read off the VCU, and if you ride without the stock Stark phone/app the hours won't increase. I'd recommend using the odometer for service intervals as even with just the stock Stark experience the hours meter will be pretty inaccurate.
Yes this is what I'm talking about from your videos...
I want to know the hours because I bought this bike from another guy two month ago. With 48 hours on phone...

I think they never put the phone on the bike 😅. So I don't now the real usage of my bike.
 

brongle

Well-known member
Likes
54
Location
WA
Yes this is what I'm talking about from your videos...
I want to know the hours because I bought this bike from another guy two month ago. With 48 hours on phone...

I think they never put the phone on the bike 😅. So I don't now the real usage of my bike.
I'm not sure how accurate the odometer is on the original MX, I'm guessing older firmware didn't used to track the value although it does seem to increase now. Either way there is probably no good way to determine the actual hours for the bike, or at least if there is we don't have access to it.
 

Yieloficial

New member
Likes
1
Location
Córdoba España
Interesting, thanks for sharing the screenshots. I still don't really understand how this failure mode could even happen, I can understand a single cell going bad but to consistently have two entire cell groups get disconnected seems very suspicious. It's also shocking this displays no errors to the user, doesn't fault the BMS, and seemingly doesn't raise alarm bells on Stark's diagnostics tools. I guess as an EX owner it's time to pray Stark somehow fixed this in the new packs, although that seems unlikely given it was supposedly just a cell upgrade.

From my understanding the vast majority of Stark's support staff are relatively non-technical so it's not too shocking they identified it as a cell imbalance, they probably can't even see the individual cell group voltages. The incoming support cases get triaged by this staff and then as needed some of Stark's actual engineering staff are brought in. I'm guessing that would be the next step after their bottom-balancing instructions inevitably fail for you, and hopefully then they can correctly diagnose the issue and get the pack warrantied.
@Erwin P

I continue investigating the problem with my battery. I have fully discharged and charged it, obviously both series are still dead. I have extensive knowledge of lithium batteries, so like you, I find it very strange that the battery works with these dead groups, how the BMS does not detect a fault, and how there are no extreme overtemperatures.

To confirm that they were not errors in the readings in the app, after charging it to 100% I measured the voltage at the battery terminals to corroborate the maximum voltage it takes... Exactly the same as the app indicates 409V 😭😭 98 X 4'175V = 409'15

1000226190.jpg
 

brongle

Well-known member
Likes
54
Location
WA
@Erwin P

I continue investigating the problem with my battery. I have fully discharged and charged it, obviously both series are still dead. I have extensive knowledge of lithium batteries, so like you, I find it very strange that the battery works with these dead groups, how the BMS does not detect a fault, and how there are no extreme overtemperatures.

To confirm that they were not errors in the readings in the app, after charging it to 100% I measured the voltage at the battery terminals to corroborate the maximum voltage it takes... Exactly the same as the app indicates 409V 😭😭 98 X 4'175V = 409'15

View attachment 14718
Ah good thinking to check the actual pack voltage, there are no contactors though? I guess those are in the inverter then? This fully rules out any issues with the VCU/BMS or with the app reading incorrect values. Best of luck with your warranty process and keep us updated.

If you do end up riding with the app and using the recording mode I would recommend enabling the "Include Cell Voltages" (in settings -> recording mode). This will increase the recording size but give us per-cell-group voltage data in the recording samples. I don't have it enabled on the viewer app yet (but should be able to get done shortly), but there is a graph for that data and it might be interesting to see how the other cells are behaving.
 

OpaTsupa

Well-known member
Likes
82
Location
Europe's arsehole
... only really missing a way to automatically record rides when the bike is turned on. ...

Stark app/phone records even loading the bike in the van as a ride. No real need for that.
Better to have some threshold of time/distance or a manual toggle to record it as a ride.

Also, Stark app splits the actual ride into segments if the bike is turned off during it.
It would be better if it could merge the segments into one at the end of the day. Even manually.
 
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