Flux Performance - eMX startup from Europe

[Beagle]

That's interesting, wish you more luck than Alta (and Cake)

FluxMoto on Instagram: "⚡ Marc Fenigstein joins FluxMoto! ⚡ Flux Performance, the Slovenian tech leader in electric motorcycles, is thrilled to welcome Marc Fenigstein, formerly co-founder and CEO of Alta Motors, to our advisory board and as an inve

358 likes, 28 comments - fluxmotorcycles on July 2, 2024: "⚡ Marc Fenigstein joins FluxMoto! ⚡ Flux Performance, the Slovenian tech leader in electric motorcycles, is thrilled to welcome Marc Fenigstein, formerly co-founder and CEO of Alta Motors, to our advisory board and as an investor...

www.instagram.com

 

[Philip]

AWESOME! Flux really needed help with growing and scaling up. I am excited!



Flux Performance, the Slovenian tech leader in electric motorcycles, is thrilled to welcome Marc Fenigstein, formerly co-founder and CEO of Alta Motors, to our advisory board and as an investor!

Marc and Alta’s legacy in pioneering competitive electric motocross bikes is a massive boost for Flux. His experience and vision will be key as we aim to lead the electric motorcycle market.

Marko, CEO of Flux: “Alta was the OG, they imagined and mass-produced the first competitive eMX bike ever and made it reliably. We want to build on top of that and avoid past mistakes.”

Marc: “Flux is the team that can take electric motorcycles to the next stage. I’m thrilled to invest my time and money into them. What they have in the works is mind-blowing.”

This announcement marks the second major addition to the Flux Performance team in a week’s time. Alongside Marc Fenigstein, Flux has also welcomed Karl Ytterborn, former Chief Marketing Officer and co-founder of CAKE electric motorcycles, as CMO.

Read more at: FLUX Motorcycles - ALTA MOTORS FOUNDER MARC FENIGSTEIN JOINS FLUX MOTORCYCLES

Stay tuned for more updates as we charge ahead!

 

[Marko_Flux]

Thanks! I’m flattered and honoured to be attracting these people and let me assure you, it’s not the salary .

Alta you all know the story, with Cake I wasn’t a fan of the product, but the marketing always seemed good.

With them we’ve got a wealth of experience, what worked and what didn’t….how many people on earth started a world famous eMoto company from scratch…

 

[Johnny Depp]

Thanks, so first thing's first, here's the video of the trail ride range test:

We strive to be the EV company that's honest with their customers.

Having a modular battery is doable, but everything in life is a compromise. Dual battery means running them in parallel, so you'll have double the cells in series, meaning a much more expensive BMS combined, compared to a single battery with equal specs. There's ofc also considerations for extra weight with doubling housings, fixtures etc.

Our team's background is in aerospace, so we have a competitive advantage in the higher performance spectrum. There's only one competitor there today, while on the light off-roader side there's a bunch (KTM, Surron, Dust?, etc). Some of those are already good, others can be made better with a suspension swap. Components are readily available off-the-shelf. It seems advantages there would be razor thin and the Asians can beat us on price. There would be some willing to pay a premium for more, but generally a beginner/playbike is much more price sensitive than something like the Varg, where you want the best. At lower power levels, a high voltage system's cons start to outweigh the pros. Those are my thoughts at least.

The Primo has a swappable battery, you can yank it out from the side. It's not optimised right now with a quick release system, but you just undo the bolts, detach 2 connectors and out it goes.
My question for you guys is would you be buying a second battery at a €6-7k price point? Or would a higher range and faster charging solve the shortcomings in a better way?

There’s no replacement for the competitive advantage in racing of a lightweight quick swap setup. Smaller/lighter performance benefits outweigh the disadvantages of range.

 

[Number Six]

Thanks! I’m flattered and honoured to be attracting these people and let me assure you, it’s not the salary .

Alta you all know the story, with Cake I wasn’t a fan of the product, but the marketing always seemed good.

With them we’ve got a wealth of experience, what worked and what didn’t….how many people on earth started a world famous eMoto company from scratch…

Congratulations on the continuing forward momentum of the product.

A question regarding the kind-of-a-clutch / re-gen thing ; does the system have the ability to RELEASE stored energy as with a traditional mechanical clutch ?

I find that when riding my electric & I need to lighten the front wheel to clear a log or manual over a depression or hole, having to do that using only the throttle gets a bit tricky & with little margin for error.
Seems there's a much wider range of operation for that sort of technique on a gas bike with its mechanical clutch & the slower spinning up motor.
Have you considered testing a conventional mechanical clutch similar as those used on some of the E-Motion bikes ?

 

[Marko_Flux]

Congratulations on the continuing forward momentum of the product.

A question regarding the kind-of-a-clutch / re-gen thing ; does the system have the ability to RELEASE stored energy as with a traditional mechanical clutch ?

I find that when riding my electric & I need to lighten the front wheel to clear a log or manual over a depression or hole, having to do that using only the throttle gets a bit tricky & with little margin for error.
Seems there's a much wider range of operation for that sort of technique on a gas bike with its mechanical clutch & the slower spinning up motor.
Have you considered testing a conventional mechanical clutch similar as those used on some of the E-Motion bikes ?

The idea is by having enough wheel torque, one can simulate that "release response" with software. Precisely for what you mentioned, you could have a very mellow power delivery on throttle (for grip and control), but use the e-clutch for the quick pop. The current proto doesn't have that release response programming yet, as we're lacking wheel torque in this configuration.

Trials are ofc very specific bikes. We probably won't test it in the near term, to focus resources on things we deem more high priority, I don't feel the mech. clutch is the way to go on this bike. The reasoning:
-small inertia in an eMotor rotor means not much "stored" kinetic energy to release
-a clutch would add probably 2kg and 500$ to the bike + take volume away from other components
-heat issues (more oil needed -> more weight, extra heating of the motor unit)
-range reduction (clutch transforms motion into heat, but even without engagement, there's a % of slip and resulting losses being generated)

 

[Philip]

More and more I am convinced that having a mechanical clutch or a gearbox on an electeric bike is a "crutch" for not having good software.

 

[Trialsman]

More and more I am convinced that having a mechanical clutch or a gearbox on an electeric bike is a "crutch" for not having good software.

Exactly ! The idea of a left hand clutch controlled by finger is a fine motor skill. Using the entire wrist with the throttle is a gross motor skill and is not nearly as accurate. The idea of the "clutch" itself, is worthwhile for a woods rider, but not at the expense of weight, range, and complexity as would be needed with a mechanical clutch. Interrupting the signal from the throttle back to the ECU should be a very doable software item with the aid of a linear (clutch lever) switch. When I get time I am still going to play around with this idea.

 

[Number Six]

The idea is by having enough wheel torque, one can simulate that "release response" with software. Precisely for what you mentioned, you could have a very mellow power delivery on throttle (for grip and control), but use the e-clutch for the quick pop. The current proto doesn't have that release response programming yet, as we're lacking wheel torque in this configuration.

This makes sense & jives with several comments from Varg owners about having to run in a higher power mode than they'd prefer on single track in order to get the kind of quick response & power to lift the front reliably.

-small inertia in an eMotor rotor means not much "stored" kinetic energy to release

I have noticed on some of the videos on the E-motion bikes that the clutch does appear to be a bit of a light switch, likely due to the lack of enretia mentioned.

Damn physics ! They insist on getting in the way of perfection, don't they ? , Hope you can 'software' your way closer to an effective solution.
I like very much the characteristics of the electric power 98% of the time, but since I lack the talent of an Eddie Carlson or Taddy, it's that remaining 2% that gives me some trouble on the E bike.

 

[Redbull]

Exactly ! The idea of a left hand clutch controlled by finger is a fine motor skill. Using the entire wrist with the throttle is a gross motor skill and is not nearly as accurate. The idea of the "clutch" itself, is worthwhile for a woods rider, but not at the expense of weight, range, and complexity as would be needed with a mechanical clutch. Interrupting the signal from the throttle back to the ECU should be a very doable software item with the aid of a linear (clutch lever) switch. When I get time I am still going to play around with this idea.

I completely agree with this idea and the more diverse the terrain and speeds, the more this is needed.

In terms of power delivery programming, when I ask for a "clutch" I am not asking for a way to traditionally be able to load up the energy reserves, I am seeking a way to have a finer throttle control delivered faster/slower be it a sharper power snap or to feather it on demand in a way that I can do better with my finger than I can with with my wrist. Like it or not no matter how good I am at separating my hand/wrist from my arm, I am still using my throttle hand/wrist hold on to, push/pull and lean the bars. Whereas my clutch finger(s) have no body-to-handling input to the bars and can maintain a level of precision and dexterity beyond any other body part in control of a control lever.

To me something like this isn't getting electric dirt bikes to feel like ICE, it is actually advancing the ways we can use a programmable input in a way that doesn't involve looking down or hunting for a button/switch. All I can do right now (at the lever) is adjust where my clutch engages but imagine being able to software program how it engages or what it does? I want to program it to scale the power linearly from 100-50% of current throttle input; or go into regen when pulled; or to go up one map while pulled and back when released without having to reach for a map switch; or to jump into beast mode and swell from 55hp to 75hp only while pulled. Even pulling back the power works for example when pulled in it drops power from 60hp to 30hp for slippy sections yet having full throttle twist range.

Having a programmable lever AND programmable map buttons take huge advantage of inputs we are already wired to use. Pulling over and adjusting things on a mobile phone when we get to a challenging section seems like a step backward not forward. The Stark promise of truly having a 150cc and a 450cc in one bike becomes a reality when the terrain you are riding on demands completely difference performance characteristics in one stretch of trail all without stopping to change anything. What I would have given for that on my 950 Adventure to tame the 100 hp when dirt turned to slippy wet clay in the tight stuff or the rocky loose shale single track on the edge of a steep cliff turned into 180 switchbacks.