How long does it take to balance the pack?

[snydes]

If possible, could someone note how long their bike takes from the time the chargers fan shuts off (charge meter full) until the bike shuts off? This I’m told is when it balances the pack. My bike with its condition takes excessively long and I’d like to hear what other people are experiencing. Thanks for the help.

 

[OneLapper]

Steve, the fan on the charger shuts off at the same time the bike indicate its "charged", then the display shuts off. I have a 17 MX with Std charger and have been standing there a couple times when this sequence has occurred. I believe the cell balance happens from when the battery indicator shows its full to when the charger shuts off.

Also, the temperature of the charger changes quite a bit from the bulk charge to the balance charge, hot to cool. My charger is cool the last 30 minutes or so if I let it do a full charge.

Edit: maybe @datadog can clarify the charge process

 

[snydes]

Mine the fan of the charger will shut off, the charge indicator will show it's charged, and the display will still indicate "charging" for 45 minutes (last time I timed it). This isn't right and I haven't got a clear answer yet on whats normal.

This is an MXR with the 3.3kW charger. I haven't tried my 2.7kW to see if it does the same.

 

[OneLapper]

There very well can be a difference in what the the chargers are doing, or what the fans are doing.

I still have to charge up my bike from the weekends Jday race. I'll keep an eye on it when I go to charge it.

 

[Judaslefourbe]

Looking at the fan is NOT a good indicator of what is happening. The display is.

 

[datadog]

I have seen 100% SOC on the display and the diagnostic PC and waited for an hour and 20 minutes for balancing. 45 minutes is not out of the ordinary.

 

[OneLapper]

Looking at the fan is NOT a good indicator of what is happening. The display is.

Good point. The fan on my charger turns off when the light on it turns green, and the display on the Alta says "Charge Complete" or "Charged".

 

[snydes]

Well, that's good to know. I have it charging right now on the 2.7kW. The SOC on the display is indicating full and the fan still runs on the this charger with the red light still lit indicating charging. I'm timing it to see how long it takes till everything shuts off.

 

[OneLapper]

Sound exactly what mine does. It can take a long time especially after a race weekend when I have to top it off several times.

 

[Mark911]

My charger has a USB header and the "Programable Charging Curve" button outlined in the ElCon website. The standard ElCon has the button more accessible, but all that's required on my 17 charger was to remove the cover.

Of course, this option would only work if Alta specified more than one curve to be loaded. In any event, you could try it and see if somehow you can switch charging algorithms (maybe yours is corrupted or just needs a re-boot). As always there's risk, but I'd hope Alta wouldn't program anything that could cause a safety issue, although faster charging does lead to reduces call life.

The USB interface MIGHT be a convenient way to access the bikes CAN Bus using UCC1, at least one level.

Choice of Charging Curve (curve 1~10)
1.The LED will flash red several times when AC is first connected, then the LED will flash green once. The number of red flashes denotes the present curve. E.g. If the red flashes three times, it means the present curve is curve 3.
2.To choose another curve, please cut off the power supply first, then unpeel the label, pressing the button while connecting the power. If you want to choose curve 3, release the button after the 3rd LED Flash. Now the selected curve (e.g. curve 3) will be recorded in memory. If you want the charger to work with the selected curve (e.g. curve 3), cut off the power and reconnect it.

 

[snydes]

I did another full charge with the 2.7kw. It took about an hour (on 120v if that is a factor) from the time the bike indicated full SOC till the charger shut off. The bike shut off about a minute later.

Very interesting stuff Mark! Thanks!

 

[TCMB371]

Sound exactly what mine does. It can take a long time especially after a race weekend when I have to top it off several times.

I concur with this statement. After a race weekend of rapid charging multiple times, it takes noticeably longer to charge on the standard charger i have at home. Seemingly sits at full SOC for quite a while, longer than usual, until everything powers down.

 

[Drtjumper]

So is it better to charge with the regular charger or the fast charger if you aren't in a hurry? I have both and had a dedicated 240 put in just for my fast charger at home. However if I'm doing undue damage to the cells using the fast charger when at home then I will just use the regular charger. Can anyone from Alta confirm this?

 

[snydes]

I’m not from Alta but I’ve been told slower is better for these batteries.

 

[evh1]

In the past, slower or trickle charging is the preferred route in charging most batteries and the one I'd go with if not pressed for time. 120v or 240v charging via a charger that can do both is slow to fast and thus "easier" on a battery, I assume. The main culprit here is heat, I assume again. Lithium batteries are a different animal, so old school thinking may be in error.
I'm going to stop by our commercial battery vendor for our country club golf carts and see what a real battery man says and not a Battery Source newb. Double EE's here online may know the real stuff too.
BTW, my balancing time is +/- 1 hour. After the long enduro where I gassed the battery to the bottom, it took 1 hr 20 min.

 

[schwankl]

the charging probably has some temp throttling and variables for the battery type. ie its ok to let it flow, just not when its hot, or cold

 

[evh1]

A link from another thread had this... Are you killing your lithium batteries?

What causes these parasitic reactions to kill lithium-ion batteries?
There are basically two main factors that speed up the inevitable death of your battery:

• High temperatures
• Increased time spent at high voltages (i.e. high charge level)

Both of these contribute to faster death of lithium-ion batteries. According to Jeff Dahn, high temperatures aggravate the parasitic reactions that occur in a lithium-ion battery’s electrolyte, while high charge levels result in extra performance for a few cycles, followed by a crash in performance and much faster deterioration of the cell.

Fortunately for us, both of these factors can be controlled to make batteries last as long as possible.

 

[strider]

Charging slower does generate less heat but it's charging for a longer time (thereby generating heat for a longer time) so it's a bit of a wash. Since our batteries have active cooling and the ability to slow charging if temps get too high I would just charge and trust that Alta set the charging parameters correctly.

 

[privateer703]

So if I store the bike at half charge and I'm going to ride but use less than that, is it better to charge it up to 100% and let it balance then ride it down to 50%? Or ride it down to 10% then charge it back to half.

 

[OneLapper]

So if I store the bike at half charge and I'm going to ride but use less than that, is it better to charge it up to 100% and let it balance then ride it down to 50%? Or ride it down to 10% then charge it back to half.

Good question, I have wondered this myself. I always charge the bike to the end of the cycle before a ride, then recharge it to 50% SOC after the ride. There's no way to get to 50% and enter the balance cell stage that I'm aware of.