NEW! STARK VARG EX is here!

[Beagle]

The bad news: 60 and 80 hp versions are back, both for Varg and Varg EX. I dislike manufacturers artificially limiting performances by software.

The good news: Varg 70 is still $11k / 12k€ but 60 hp is cheaper yet $10k / 11k€

 

[Chadx]

I haven't seen any mention of ABS, so let's just clarify my statement that "if it's NZ road legal then it must have ABS".

All road-legal motorcycles in NZ must have ABS, meaning there's a heap of European enduro models that don't get imported and our choice of enduro/dual sport models is limited to those with ABS, eg we get CRF300L with ABS.

There is an "enduro" exemption that allows non-ABS bikes but those bikes are only allowed on the road during FIM-accredited events, not for general riding. And here's the thing - the national body that's affiliated to FIM doesn't run enduro events with road sections. So there are no FIM-accredited events and the exemption is not meaningful.

Some bike shops are selling non-ABS bikes under this exemption but they shouldn't. The exemption isn't legal for that bike for general road riding. If a cop pulls you up then you're screwed. Your insurance won't be valid, etc...

Do Stark know this? I hope so and I hope the EX comes with ABS. However, Stark also sold their first bikes in NZ with a 10 Amp plug and a 15 Amp set on the charger. That's against regulations. They said they made the decision based on advice from their "AUS/NZ consultant partner" but that partner didn't understand the rules. To be fair, they changed it pretty rapidly once we told them but I am not convinced that Stark understand NZ regulations.

So does the EX have ABS? Until Stark confirm one way or the other, we don't know.

Wouldn't they still be able to be sold as offroad only? Still a lot of benefits compared to the MX version, including headlight/tail/brake lights benefits for trail riding . Just can't license it? Wouldn't that be an option?

 

[Chadx]

So it seems the ex seat height is taller 96.6 cm to mx 94.7. Not sure why with the ex suspension having less travel and all

It is odd. Per website:

EX:
Seat height
Fully extended 99.0 cm
Static SAG 96.6 cm

MX:
Seat height
94,7 cm


Maybe the EX has a taller seat? Or different linkage or shock mount? Or geo?
But, more than likely, the website is just wrong. Ha. That is the most probably explanation. Or just measured in different ways or with different suspension/springs/valving or different sags.

 

[Chadx]

The bad news: 60 and 80 hp versions are back, both for Varg and Varg EX. I dislike manufacturers artificially limiting performances by software.

The good news: Varg 70 is still $11k / 12k€ but 60 hp is cheaper yet $10k / 11k€

If it comes with a $1,000 USD discount, I don't mind at all.
I suppose it's how you frame it. Sits better if you think of it as saving $1,000 by getting the 60hp rather than full spec 80hp; Rather than framing it like you are paying $1,000 more to get 80hp. Now, what bugs me is subscriptions. Never will I pay a subscription limited to use on one powersport equipment or vehicle. I do pay subscriptions to mapping apps and music apps, but that is on my phone so I can use it anywhere. I'm using that mapping app on my current Stark phone, in my personal phone in my pickup, carry it with me on ATV, etc. Won't pay for subscription that is not portable, tied to one vehicle, and unusable away from the vehicle. Too focused of a use. If the Start mapping app is subscription, which sounds like it will be, I have no use for it. Some will pay it if they see value in it. I already have mapping app and will use that.

 

[Beagle]

If it comes with a $1,000 USD discount, I don't mind at all.
I suppose it's how you frame it. Sits better if you think of it as saving $1,000 by getting the 60hp rather than full spec 80hp; Rather than framing it like you are paying $1,000 more to get 80hp. Now, what bugs me is subscriptions. Never will I pay a subscription limited to use on one powersport equipment or vehicle. I do pay subscriptions to mapping apps and music apps, but that is on my phone so I can use it anywhere. I'm using that mapping app on my current Stark phone, in my personal phone in my pickup, carry it with me on ATV, etc. Won't pay for subscription that is not portable, tied to one vehicle, and unusable away from the vehicle. Too focused of a use. If the Start mapping app is subscription, which sounds like it will be, I have no use for it. Some will pay it if they see value in it. I already have mapping app and will use that.

Good take, appreciate it could make sense for the manufacturer, and also for some customers. And I think the price is really competitive.
But to me software limitations it's like buying a TV, the factory would leave some cardboard on a fourth of it (ok say they resize the screen so it's not "hiding" anything), with a note saying "if you give us more money we can remove the cardboard".

 

[Philip]

Long version of the press release video. I'll add it to my first posts further up, too.

This long version is worth watching!

The new map switch is waterproof and has the wires routed through the inside of the handlebar.

The front blinkers use modern dildo technology. They are legal in Europe, Australia, and NZ.

The dildo tech is not legal in North America though, so they "provide separate indicators to meet those standards". So, do we get the dildo tech or not?

I hope the new phone has better cameras.

North America gets the foot brake on the bike, which is a legal requirement, and the hand brake in a box.

A redesigned wiring harness.

What did I miss?

 

[happyinmotion]

Wouldn't they still be able to be sold as offroad only? Still a lot of benefits compared to the MX version, including headlight/tail/brake lights benefits for trail riding . Just can't license it? Wouldn't that be an option?

Yes, it can be sold as offroad only in NZ, just like the Varg MX.

But if it has ABS and can be road legal then that's going to be more desirable in NZ coz we have very much less choice of enduro bikes, or electric bikes, or electric enduro bikes.

 

[UKLee]

"Going to take over the enduro world" I just can not see it due to battery range and still no hot swap.
The biggest enduro here in the UK is the welsh 2 day enduro which is a time card enduro, some ICE bikes only just make it to the refuelling stops and no way is the current stark range as good as an ICE bike might be a bit closer with the extra 20% but still think you will have to go steady on the throttle to be sure to make the refuelling.

Then you are going to have to change the battery, this is wales so every chance the bike will be thick in mud which will not help but I have seen videos of 3 people with all the kit to hand and modified bodywork change the battery in about 5 minutes assuming all goes well and you dont fill the plug with mud or cross thread a bolt/nut, There are 3 or 4 I forget refuelling stops per day so you are going to need 4 or 5 batteries this is assuming you can get them all recharged overnight for day 2 if not you need 8 or 9 batteries. As it stands you can only charge the battery on the bike and the bike is in Parc ferme overnight so have to rig something up to charge them.

Not very practical to say the least and this is assuming the organisers will allow you to change batteries at refuelling, could well be insurance problems/fire hazard etc and some poor sod has got to drive a van around the welsh countryside with a load of ticking time bomb lithiam batterys in the back.

Not a chance is this going to work, yes your 5 minute for show around some tiny stadium poor excuse for an enduro but not the proper thing.

 

[Chadx]

This long version is worth watching!

The new map switch is waterproof and has the wires routed through the inside of the handlebar.

The front blinkers use modern dildo technology. They are legal in Europe, Australia, and NZ.

The dildo tech is not legal in North America though, so they "provide separate indicators to meet those standards". So, do we get the dildo tech or not?

I hope the new phone has better cameras.

North America gets the foot brake on the bike, which is a legal requirement, and the hand brake in a box.

A redesigned wiring harness.

What did I miss?

Good summation. I got a kick out of the dildo material comment. Ha. Not sure that is a great look in all regions. But they are a bit more open on that type of thing in some EU regions. Ha. It's my understanding that the material, he is referring to, covers the turn signals built into the front number plate. U.S. requires a certain surface area for blinkers. It is huge and ugly size and there are many a dual sport running around the U.S. with huge bulbous turn signals where other countries get the sleek, non-intrusive version. Aftermarket, in the U.S. makes a killing with replacement turn signals. With the invent of LED, it's really the brightness/visibility that matters, not the turn signal surface area, but we all know how long it takes to get "rules" changed in the U.S. We'll also be driving around with real external side mirrors on U.S. vehicles forever instead of the tiny, aerodynamic external camera stocks and internal displays. Dynamic headlights are another fun subject. Anyway, there were some pics/vids of early EX version with the small, bright LED turn signals, but I don't think the U.S. will even get those. Brace yourselves for the likely huge bulbous monstrosities that will likely be forced on the U.S. bikes.

The didn't make it clear if the free handbrake was included in the box or installed on the bike (similar to how ATV have both rear foot brake and rear handlebar lever installed). They almost made it sound like it was up to the user to "only use the rear brake on the street". Perhaps being equipped with both meets the law. Would be nice if the free hand brake was installed from the factory.

The difference in wire harness they show is between a competitor and the Varg EX. Would like to have seen the Varg MX wire harness for comparison.

Most other stuff already mentioned in the thread: battery,

Like that they are using larger cells in the same battery pack. It is not clear if the battery housing is the exact same exterior dimensions and bolt up points. Meaning, will the 7.2kWh battery bolt directly into the Varg MX and will it's capacity be compatible and recognized by the MX computer?

The more robust chain guide is a small but appreciated update since some have mentioned theirs was easily damaged.

The extra flex of the chassis in various areas will be appreciated. Not that I will be able to tell the difference, but every little bit that makes the chassis more compliant is a positive step for trail riding and enduro.

Then, just the already mentioned things of factory brake rotor guards, choice of tube types and tires, titanium bolts, suspension choices, etc.

He mentions redesigned side stand that actually reaches the ground. Glad they have a sense of humor about their previous design misses. Ha.
Here is the video clip where he comments on the kickstand (set to that timestamp).

 

[Beagle]

This long version is worth watching!

The new map switch is waterproof and has the wires routed through the inside of the handlebar.

The front blinkers use modern dildo technology. They are legal in Europe, Australia, and NZ.

The dildo tech is not legal in North America though, so they "provide separate indicators to meet those standards". So, do we get the dildo tech or not?

I hope the new phone has better cameras.

North America gets the foot brake on the bike, which is a legal requirement, and the hand brake in a box.

A redesigned wiring harness.

What did I miss?

New clamp system for the phone.

Haven't seen any rear turning lights or side mirrors and can't believe it would be legal in my country with this kind of angle for the plate holder?

They don't really show the charger either (really hoping for onboard charger for the Supermoto).

Very happy to see they mention the possibility of customizing power curves, it's not shown anywhere in the vid so I can only assume it's going to have its own vid later.

Estimated delivery for Europe for new orders is February 25 for both Varg and Varg EX.

 

[Beagle]

He mentions redesigned side stand that actually reaches the ground. Glad they have a sense of humor about their previous design misses. Ha.

Right?

 

[Chadx]

Good take, appreciate it could make sense for the manufacturer, and also for some customers. And I think the price is really competitive.
But to me software limitations it's like buying a TV, the factory would leave some cardboard on a fourth of it (ok say they resize the screen so it's not "hiding" anything), with a note saying "if you give us more money we can remove the cardboard".

I submit a similar TV analogy but rather than screen size changing, let's do resolution. The Varg is surly nearly as usable with 60hp vs 80hp and most of the time, riders will choose to run in 60hp or less. This would be similar to a large screen TV that can display two different resolutions. Sitting close to a big screen, resolution is important, but if your viewing distance is a bit further away, you need less resolution to still perceive a clear picture (there are entire charts to calculate needed resolution vs viewing distance). If someone sits close to their TV, it would be of value to pay a bit more to have the higher resolution turned on just like we pay more today for a higher resolution TV than a lower resolution TV of the same size. But in this analogy, one piece of hardware can display two resolutions just like the Varg can run two different max hp settings. If someone's viewing distance is further back on this made-up TV, they would get no value from the extra resolution so instead gets a price break.
This is similar to how video streaming services offer two different streaming resolutions for two different price tiers; get a price break if you are good with less resolution.

I have zero interest or need for a 80hp Varg so choose the price break. Those that value it can pay full price and get the 80hp. Heck, I'd probably even go with the lower hp if it maxed out at 50hp. I run most single track in 35 - 38hp (still playing with it) and most forest service trails in 40 - 45hp...though I do have setting 5 set to 60hp.

Any stints on the tarmac flips all this on it's head anyway since on the street, we are used to high hp machines and great traction. Well, great traction if you run run supermoto tires or at least street-biased dual sport tires. Soft compound knobbies on the street are already going to dread the torque of the Varg motor and say bye-bye. Ha. If I ever ride the street, it will be around town, short trips or connecting sections of trails or to be legal on forest service roads (even though FWP doesn't bother us on dirtbikes/ATVs on mountain forest service roads the way it is).

 

[Chadx]

New clamp system for the phone.

Haven't seen any rear turning lights or side mirrors and can't believe it would be legal in my country with this kind of angle for the plate holder?

Very happy to see they mention the possibility of customizing power curves, it's not shown anywhere in the vid so I can only assume it's going to have its own vid later.

Estimated delivery for Europe for new orders is February 25 for both Varg and Varg EX.

Yeah, completely new phone and cradle. Nice.

Mirrors will be included, I assume, but all the manufactures take them off for press releases and videos...because they are ugly. Ha.

Rear plate sticking that far back will be nice for added mud protection provided it doesn't brake off getting smacked by rocks. Since it's molded in, replacing a broken license plate holder will require an entirely new rear fender.

US estimated delivery, for orders today on Varg website, are March 2025 for EX and April 2025 for MX configured in a way that is not in stock. They still say "10 day delivery" for most MX configurations. Must still have a U.S. warehouse with plenty of stock. Winter time is a tough time to sell for a good span of the U.S. Though the southern US guys are just now being able to enjoy the desert riding.

 

[Chadx]

He also mentioned the flag-type handguards save weight by attaching to the brake reservoirs. That makes me cringe, but as long as the brake reservoir and mount are plenty beefy and the handguard finds the balance between being robust enough but still the weakest point, should be OK.

 

[Beagle]

Torque is very slightly higher at 1036 Nm, they must have adapted something in the distribution or is it just the 18" rear wheel?

70k YT views in 12 h is solid!

 

[Bpspecs]

So is there a new varg mx revamp on the horizon from what I’ve read here?

 

[Chadx]

So is there a new varg mx revamp on the horizon from what I’ve read here?

Nothing has been released, but my guess is they will announce the MX revamp (change to wiring harness, phone, cradle, etc.) once the current inventory of MX are depleted for the sale price. Then the MX will go back to the higher price. Though interestingly, the Varg website will still price the discounted price for ordered, non-built Varg MX. Maybe this is the one and only opportunity for some buyers to get the discounted price on a Varg MX revamp, or perhaps the MX revamp is further out and they'll prove everything out on the EX before changing things on the MX. Said a shorter way..."We don't know". Ha.

 

[bodacious swgr]

Just watched the promotional video and looks pretty cool. Glad to see some new changes being made to the original design.

Only problem is that early adopters are once again getting the short end of the stick here. Wondering if there is anyone else here who paid $13,000 for an original only to have the price get slashed and a new model with added range + a whole bunch of other goodies less than a year later. Hopefully they at least sell the disc guards as a bolt on part so there is an OEM solution instead of those carbon ones I keep seeing.

The battery range in itself is a bummer since 2023s didn’t get an upgrade but honestly the phone changes are pretty big here as well. The current phone doesn’t actually clamp really well into the bike and if not attached perfectly has a chance to just fly out on big hits. I’ve had more than one experience where it took 30+ minutes of backtracking to find the phone laying face down on the ground miles back.

Overall though the new bike looks great despite the feeling of getting sacked. Definitely would have bought an EX considering most of my riding is done purely off road. Best bet for someone new who’s interested might be to wait a bit and see if they offer any kinds of discounts if there’s any left over units from the first batch.

 

[Chadx]

Just watched the promotional video and looks pretty cool. Glad to see some new changes being made to the original design.

Only problem is that early adopters are once again getting the short end of the stick here. Wondering if there is anyone else here who paid $13,000 for an original only to have the price get slashed and a new model with added range + a whole bunch of other goodies less than a year later. Hopefully they at least sell the disc guards as a bolt on part so there is an OEM solution instead of those carbon ones I keep seeing.

The battery range in itself is a bummer since 2023s didn’t get an upgrade but honestly the phone changes are pretty big here as well. The current phone doesn’t actually clamp really well into the bike and if not attached perfectly has a chance to just fly out on big hits. I’ve had more than one experience where it took 30+ minutes of backtracking to find the phone laying face down on the ground miles back.

Overall though the new bike looks great despite the feeling of getting sacked. Definitely would have bought an EX considering most of my riding is done purely off road. Best bet for someone new who’s interested might be to wait a bit and see if they offer any kinds of discounts if there’s any left over units from the first batch.

It's an understandable, but expected situation with any new company, fast moving tech, or even when an established company releases a complete update to an existing model. Happens with phones, computers, etc. where you barely have the new version figured out and they slash the price as they introduce the next model. Ha. Try to find and pay MSRP for the latest version of a sports car, new 4x4 SUV model, or all new EV. Dealerships tack $10,000 - $50,000 markups onto $70,000 - $110,000 vehicles. And people pay it to have the latest before anyone else or if there is limited availability and high demand. Then that dries up and prices drop to MSRP so more people buy. Then manufactures may even add on a rebate to clear out one model year even if the next model year is unchanged. More people buy for cheaper than the earlier buyers.

It sure stings when a price drops after you buy, especially really close after. And, early adopters also have to deal with some bugs getting worked out and potential down time. But then, you also get time experiencing your purchase. To me, that is what you are paying for when you buy cool stuff early. I didn't buy a Varg until early winter so only got a handful of rides in before parking for the winter. If I'd paid a couple thousand more, I could have ridden it all summer. Similar to traveling for a vacation, you are paying for time spent experiencing something and racking up memories and the fun meter. Up to each person to decide if it's worth paying a bit extra (and dealing with bugs) being an early adopter or waiting for the price curve and quality to settle a bit, but missing out on a year of experience.

Just how I look at it and I've been on both ends of the buyer spectrum. Early adopter and paid a premium and dealt with some bugs (and even a bicycle manufacturer that went bankrupt. Though the bike is still great, it sucks knowing there is no packing or replacement parts available for the manufacturer-specific parts). And, I've held off on other things until the bugs are worked out and been lucky enough to time it for a price break (my Varg purchase). Pros and cons to both and I've run the gamut of emotions during each of those (wished I'd bought earlier, wished I'd bought later, frustrated with bugs/support, happy as can be getting a bunch of fun experiences on a new thing).

 

[UKLee]

Just watched the promotional video and looks pretty cool. Glad to see some new changes being made to the original design.

Only problem is that early adopters are once again getting the short end of the stick here. Wondering if there is anyone else here who paid $13,000 for an original only to have the price get slashed and a new model with added range + a whole bunch of other goodies less than a year later. Hopefully they at least sell the disc guards as a bolt on part so there is an OEM solution instead of those carbon ones I keep seeing.

The battery range in itself is a bummer since 2023s didn’t get an upgrade but honestly the phone changes are pretty big here as well. The current phone doesn’t actually clamp really well into the bike and if not attached perfectly has a chance to just fly out on big hits. I’ve had more than one experience where it took 30+ minutes of backtracking to find the phone laying face down on the ground miles back.

Overall though the new bike looks great despite the feeling of getting sacked. Definitely would have bought an EX considering most of my riding is done purely off road. Best bet for someone new who’s interested might be to wait a bit and see if they offer any kinds of discounts if there’s any left over units from the first batch.

If what they say in the video is correct it looks like a lot of the upgrades would put a lot of the issues with the current varg right so they should be fitting these to our bikes under warranty to fix problems that keep coming up.

Waterproof loom.
Side stand that works.
Phone holder and new phone if that is what it takes, If your phone falls out and you have an insulation issue you can not be warned so that makes it a safety issue.
Power switch that does not stick in.
Power modes 125,450 etc as we were promised in the early pro mo videos that we never got.

STARK, we are the ones who took the chance on the first bikes from a company who had never built anything, our orders gave you the confidence to expand and made us wait longer. Do the right thing and make our bikes right as we were promised.