didnt know about that bike, interesting. But deep looking i see it has a "realistic range of 120 miles when ridden in a ‘normal’ way – which is well short of the range claims made by the firm." Teneree has 150/200 and on the world ride edition with the bigger tank it has 300miles... i dont think Stark would like a 260kg, 120/150miles, 30.000€ Adventure bike jajaja they will never release something like that
Stark Future next models
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Erwin P
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@Beagle The Tenere is a 700 so doesn't really count as well then 
The "800" class is often describing the 700-900. That does incluide some pricy bikes like the 890R wich was a huge sales succes (they still managed to overproduce but still). DesertX, 900GS, Tiger 800/900 etc etc. 18K is nothing uncommen there.
A Varg is 120kg. Around 200 should be benchmark, most of those bikes are over 200 wet. That leaves you 80kg. 2 battery's extra are 70kg. Having the 3 build as one would have weight advantages of say 10 kg. That leaves you 20kg for extra bodywork, bigger frame etc. Wich is not a lott, but given they are allready on beavy suspension it just might do. A 21,6kWh battery would pretty much do. With some more modern cells it should even get around 26kW. Then we are talking serious range.
@Karinshi Stark has something Energica never had: Scale.
Stark outsells Energica entire existance (they are bankrupt due to an investor not comming through, but are bought and restarting now) in every quarter.
That makes talking to suppliers from suspension/brakes/wheels etc etc that much easier and cheaper. Also lowers the margin you need per bike.
Also don't forget the Experia was introduced in 2022. Before we see the Alg it's 2026.
The "800" class is often describing the 700-900. That does incluide some pricy bikes like the 890R wich was a huge sales succes (they still managed to overproduce but still). DesertX, 900GS, Tiger 800/900 etc etc. 18K is nothing uncommen there.
A Varg is 120kg. Around 200 should be benchmark, most of those bikes are over 200 wet. That leaves you 80kg. 2 battery's extra are 70kg. Having the 3 build as one would have weight advantages of say 10 kg. That leaves you 20kg for extra bodywork, bigger frame etc. Wich is not a lott, but given they are allready on beavy suspension it just might do. A 21,6kWh battery would pretty much do. With some more modern cells it should even get around 26kW. Then we are talking serious range.
@Karinshi Stark has something Energica never had: Scale.
Stark outsells Energica entire existance (they are bankrupt due to an investor not comming through, but are bought and restarting now) in every quarter.
That makes talking to suppliers from suspension/brakes/wheels etc etc that much easier and cheaper. Also lowers the margin you need per bike.
Also don't forget the Experia was introduced in 2022. Before we see the Alg it's 2026.
He did mention a target of 300 km (186 miles) range in the vid. Zero is really close to that with 17 kWh (in city range).
@Erwin P comparing to Ténéré or Tiger 900 doesn't really change the weight that much but I would expect "superlight" to be under 200 kg, of course add 4-5 k to the price, then think about power. His stated goal is 50% more power than the competition so that's about 110 hp looking at the Ténéré or 160 hp compared to Triumph 900, that is a different territory for an adventure bike (as in 30 k€ 240 kg 1300 GS territory). Of course Stark is not known for "reasonable amount of power" but 180 kg 160 hp adventure bike seems like a disaster waiting to happen
@Erwin P comparing to Ténéré or Tiger 900 doesn't really change the weight that much but I would expect "superlight" to be under 200 kg, of course add 4-5 k to the price, then think about power. His stated goal is 50% more power than the competition so that's about 110 hp looking at the Ténéré or 160 hp compared to Triumph 900, that is a different territory for an adventure bike (as in 30 k€ 240 kg 1300 GS territory). Of course Stark is not known for "reasonable amount of power" but 180 kg 160 hp adventure bike seems like a disaster waiting to happen
Erwin P
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He said 50% more power. Didn't really hear him talking about the competition regaridng power so could be comparing to the Varg? 120hp would sound like a good target for an ADV and wouldn't add that much weight. Their drivetrain is pretty beavy as is. The cogs in the gearing are as beavy as in a 130 hp bike. The chain allready is a 520 so moving to a 525 wouldn't hurt that much either. I can see both to 2nd cog and the rear sprocket getting smaller due to more road like gearing and a more powerfull motor. That more powerfull motor wouldn't even need to be that much heavier though.
Dirtbikes actually have ''overengineered'' transmissions compared to street/ADV bikes. The forces each and every ride are so much greater than on a streetride, even if that streetride involves some 180 hp trafic light dragraces, because in MX, every corner is a dragrace.
Fun thing i've learned that an E ADV bikes actually can use City range for TET/TAT/BDR riding. The speeds are so low (30-60 km/h for most people) that actually huge ranges get possible.
Dirtbikes actually have ''overengineered'' transmissions compared to street/ADV bikes. The forces each and every ride are so much greater than on a streetride, even if that streetride involves some 180 hp trafic light dragraces, because in MX, every corner is a dragrace.
Fun thing i've learned that an E ADV bikes actually can use City range for TET/TAT/BDR riding. The speeds are so low (30-60 km/h for most people) that actually huge ranges get possible.
I think we all agree that range is very important for an ADV bike.
Like Wass said in a video years ago, the Varg has an 80 hp motor because the permanent magnets synchronous motor it uses has the best efficiency around half the maximum rotational speed, so in general it's better to have the motor overpowered even though for its intended use you almost won't use the highest range of the RPMs. Stark in general isn't afraid to try different solutions, but I doubt that they would ever use an induction motor in a motorcycle, since those are probably more efficient at high speeds but worse at low ones and they are also less power dense. Therefore, IMO they will use an overpowered PMSM like in the Varg and maybe they could limit the power to something like 70% to reduce heating.
I also think that Stark will probably cool down the battery, since both asphalt riding and fast charging makes overheating pretty likely. The Ducati V21L does have liquid cooling for the battery but from the way it is described it sounds like non immersive cooling, while maybe Stark could use immersive cooling, i.e. submerge the cells in dielectric coolant, which should be more effective and lighter. EDIT: it would also be useful to heat up the battery in cold conditions.
One very cool idea to recharge an ADV bike basically everywhere could be to use foldable solar panels, but even in a sunny day and when the Sun is at 90° altitude, they can provide roughly 0.2 kw/m², their weight is roughly 7 kg/m² and their price roughly 400€/m², so with current technology I would say that they are not an option.
Like Wass said in a video years ago, the Varg has an 80 hp motor because the permanent magnets synchronous motor it uses has the best efficiency around half the maximum rotational speed, so in general it's better to have the motor overpowered even though for its intended use you almost won't use the highest range of the RPMs. Stark in general isn't afraid to try different solutions, but I doubt that they would ever use an induction motor in a motorcycle, since those are probably more efficient at high speeds but worse at low ones and they are also less power dense. Therefore, IMO they will use an overpowered PMSM like in the Varg and maybe they could limit the power to something like 70% to reduce heating.
I also think that Stark will probably cool down the battery, since both asphalt riding and fast charging makes overheating pretty likely. The Ducati V21L does have liquid cooling for the battery but from the way it is described it sounds like non immersive cooling, while maybe Stark could use immersive cooling, i.e. submerge the cells in dielectric coolant, which should be more effective and lighter. EDIT: it would also be useful to heat up the battery in cold conditions.
One very cool idea to recharge an ADV bike basically everywhere could be to use foldable solar panels, but even in a sunny day and when the Sun is at 90° altitude, they can provide roughly 0.2 kw/m², their weight is roughly 7 kg/m² and their price roughly 400€/m², so with current technology I would say that they are not an option.
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Erwin P
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Solar panels are hardly usable to charge your phone during a break.
However as it has a fast DC charger AND at least a 12kW AC you could charge anywhere in Western Europe pretty fast. An household outlet/adapter is also needed for those slow pace charging anywhere.
If you look up a map of where the chargers are you will be amazed by the sheer number of them and at how middle of nowhere the locations often are. All the boring detours we had to make on the ICE ADV bikes are no more. So on routes like the TET it might even be that you spend less time charging than you would be with finding a fuel station and fuelling up. Especially concidering the low speeds you ride on the TET.
This map is made for the Netherlands so it has little info on chargepoints in other country's. Also you need to soom in to find all the points.
Try your local area and you problably never knew most of them existed.
www.oplaadpalen.nl
In my small 5000'ish people village there are 13 point with a total of 16 poles. Ranging from mostly 11kW to some 17 and 22kW.
Not all are public though, but more than half are incluiding all the fast ones.
However as it has a fast DC charger AND at least a 12kW AC you could charge anywhere in Western Europe pretty fast. An household outlet/adapter is also needed for those slow pace charging anywhere.
If you look up a map of where the chargers are you will be amazed by the sheer number of them and at how middle of nowhere the locations often are. All the boring detours we had to make on the ICE ADV bikes are no more. So on routes like the TET it might even be that you spend less time charging than you would be with finding a fuel station and fuelling up. Especially concidering the low speeds you ride on the TET.
This map is made for the Netherlands so it has little info on chargepoints in other country's. Also you need to soom in to find all the points.
Try your local area and you problably never knew most of them existed.
Chargepoints
Deze onafhankelijke website levert het overzicht van alle oplaadpalen in de wereld. De data is afkomstig van Eco-Movement. Eco-Movement is een onafhankelijke data leverancier die elektrische rijden wil stimuleren over de hele wereld.
In my small 5000'ish people village there are 13 point with a total of 16 poles. Ranging from mostly 11kW to some 17 and 22kW.
Not all are public though, but more than half are incluiding all the fast ones.
First of all, I don't know much about adventure riding and in general you surely know more than me if you ride in the woods.
However, for example some months a go there was a guy with an ADV bike riding in a motocross track. I was the wierdo with an E bike and he was the wierdo with an ADV bike and so we socialized and asked each other questions about our respective curious bike choices. He said that he was there to train for his expeditions and that he traveled abroad to places like Morocco and I also heard other people saying thet they do similar things with ADV bikes.
An AI just told me that, for example, in Morocco it is currently still way easier to find a gas station.
Now, if most of the European ADV bike users just use the bikes to ride on the Alps or similar places, then maybe it's not a big problem, although remember that if you run out of fuel in some wood you can solve the issue by finding someone who can bring you a gas tank, while with an EV you would either need someone to bring you a power station to charge the bike with the time needed to do so or you would need a vehicle capable of transporting your bike out of there.
The way I see it, doing adventures with a motorcycle can be scary regardless of the bike that you use and it's better to reduce anxiety and danger, which, it seems to me, that won't be achieved with an EV having a less than a very good range.
When I talked to that guy from the motocross track about use of EVs for adventure, he said that some pople have even done the Dakar race with EVs but that they were heavily assisted in a way that made it way more complicated and expensive than using gas bikes.
BTW I expect Stark to race in the Dakar some day.
However, for example some months a go there was a guy with an ADV bike riding in a motocross track. I was the wierdo with an E bike and he was the wierdo with an ADV bike and so we socialized and asked each other questions about our respective curious bike choices
. He said that he was there to train for his expeditions and that he traveled abroad to places like Morocco and I also heard other people saying thet they do similar things with ADV bikes.An AI just told me that, for example, in Morocco it is currently still way easier to find a gas station.
Now, if most of the European ADV bike users just use the bikes to ride on the Alps or similar places, then maybe it's not a big problem, although remember that if you run out of fuel in some wood you can solve the issue by finding someone who can bring you a gas tank, while with an EV you would either need someone to bring you a power station to charge the bike with the time needed to do so or you would need a vehicle capable of transporting your bike out of there.
The way I see it, doing adventures with a motorcycle can be scary regardless of the bike that you use and it's better to reduce anxiety and danger, which, it seems to me, that won't be achieved with an EV having a less than a very good range.
When I talked to that guy from the motocross track about use of EVs for adventure, he said that some pople have even done the Dakar race with EVs but that they were heavily assisted in a way that made it way more complicated and expensive than using gas bikes.
BTW I expect Stark to race in the Dakar some day.
For now it's sci-fi because there's no market for it but it would be cool to have charging stations powered by solar cells along popular trails.
The closest we have to an electric adventure bike may be Zero DSR/X:
17 kWh,
288 km / 179 city miles,
air cooled 100 hp PMAC motor,
6.6 kWh onboard charger.
Sounds pretty good until you get to weight (247 kg / 545 lbs) and price ($23 k).
Stark "just" needs to make a bike with similar power, capacity, range... 70 kg lighter and $10k cheaper 🫣
Regarding battery cooling I'm not sure what they use but they only mention aluminum heat sink so passive cooling?
Zero Motorcycles DSR/X - Adventure Electrified
The all-new DSR/X from Zero Motorcycles is the World's first purpose-built, electric adventure sports bike that handles everything from the twists and turns of mountain or canyon roads to taming terrain beyond where the road ends.
zeromotorcycles.com
Erwin P
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We actually come from ADV riding. We went from the Netherlands to Morocco over the TET on our KTM 990 ADV and Versys 300. With the KTM 990 the range anxiety is real although it has a 19,5L fuel tank. But opposite to an E the range actually gets worse when traveling slowly off-road. That's why people think that's off-road use will be worse to E bikes battery's as well, while those only bother about speed, not so much for the ground you're riding.First of all, I don't know much about adventure riding and in general you surely know more than me if you ride in the woods.
However, for example some months a go there was a guy with an ADV bike riding in a motocross track. I was the wierdo with an E bike and he was the wierdo with an ADV bike and so we socialized and asked each other questions about our respective curious bike choices
An AI just told me that, for example, in Morocco it is currently still way easier to find a gas station.
Now, if most of the European ADV bike users just use the bikes to ride on the Alps or similar places, then maybe it's not a big problem, although remember that if you run out of fuel in some wood you can solve the issue by finding someone who can bring you a gas tank, while with an EV you would either need someone to bring you a power station to charge the bike with the time needed to do so or you would need a vehicle capable of transporting your bike out of there.
The way I see it, doing adventures with a motorcycle can be scary regardless of the bike that you use and it's better to reduce anxiety and danger, which, it seems to me, that won't be achieved with an EV having a less than a very good range.
When I talked to that guy from the motocross track about use of EVs for adventure, he said that some pople have even done the Dakar race with EVs but that they were heavily assisted in a way that made it way more complicated and expensive than using gas bikes.
BTW I expect Stark to race in the Dakar some day.
That 230-300 km with a poor fuel meter makes for a gas station every 230km and nobody will tell you a KTM 990 won't do for ADV riding. 230km reliably with an E ADV won't be that hard to build.
I have actually organised MX track days for ADV bikes. Rented entire tracks and having a blast. We often joke there how much easier a bike with adjustable power would be, because people say they like bikes with lots power from down low for off-road... Until the off-roading get actually tough, like on a sand mx track, and the bike takes them for a walk.
@Beagle The Tenere is a 700 so doesn't really count as well then
The "800" class is often describing the 700-900. That does incluide some pricy bikes like the 890R wich was a huge sales succes (they still managed to overproduce but still). DesertX, 900GS, Tiger 800/900 etc etc. 18K is nothing uncommen there.
A Varg is 120kg. Around 200 should be benchmark, most of those bikes are over 200 wet. That leaves you 80kg. 2 battery's extra are 70kg. Having the 3 build as one would have weight advantages of say 10 kg. That leaves you 20kg for extra bodywork, bigger frame etc. Wich is not a lott, but given they are allready on beavy suspension it just might do. A 21,6kWh battery would pretty much do. With some more modern cells it should even get around 26kW. Then we are talking serious range.
@Karinshi Stark has something Energica never had: Scale.
Stark outsells Energica entire existance (they are bankrupt due to an investor not comming through, but are bought and restarting now) in every quarter.
That makes talking to suppliers from suspension/brakes/wheels etc etc that much easier and cheaper. Also lowers the margin you need per bike.
Also don't forget the Experia was introduced in 2022. Before we see the Alg it's 2026.
if the Zero DSR/X is the closest electric adventure bike we may have right now and its 23k, maybe is that what Stark is targeting when Anton said "10% price point of competition"? maybe they will release something at that price point, with the new molicels p60 available it will reach 17.2kwh (basically 2 varg batteries with the P60) (8.6kwh each)For now it's sci-fi because there's no market for it but it would be cool to have charging stations powered by solar cells along popular trails.
The closest we have to an electric adventure bike may be Zero DSR/X:
17 kWh,
288 km / 179 city miles,
air cooled 100 hp PMAC motor,
6.6 kWh onboard charger.
Sounds pretty good until you get to weight (247 kg / 545 lbs) and price ($23 k).
Stark "just" needs to make a bike with similar power, capacity, range... 70 kg lighter and $10k cheaper 🫣
Regarding battery cooling I'm not sure what they use but they only mention aluminum heat sink so passive cooling?
Zero Motorcycles DSR/X - Adventure Electrified
The all-new DSR/X from Zero Motorcycles is the World's first purpose-built, electric adventure sports bike that handles everything from the twists and turns of mountain or canyon roads to taming terrain beyond where the road ends.
and i think they can keep the current motor, it has plenty of power but since Anton said 50% more power than gas bikes or electric bikes (i dont know wich he was referring to) they certainly have a new motor on their plans
if they manage to keep the weight above 220kg thats a record
this got me hyped i cant wait to see their movements
dont forget about the "superlight adventure" that will be very interesting... maybe a 390cc/500cc competitor... maybe like the new KTM 390 dual sport, but even with the new P60 8.6kwh battery i think it wont be enough range for that type of bike, better battery density is needed
the numbers need to be something like a minimum of 12kwh 55/60kg battery, 48hp, less than 180kg, price is tricky here, the ktm 390 dual sport is pretty cheap, 6.5k, its not electric but i dont know any electric competitor, maybe the ZERO FX? but that bike is 14k, thats a lot, maybe 10/12k€ will do the job
the numbers need to be something like a minimum of 12kwh 55/60kg battery, 48hp, less than 180kg, price is tricky here, the ktm 390 dual sport is pretty cheap, 6.5k, its not electric but i dont know any electric competitor, maybe the ZERO FX? but that bike is 14k, thats a lot, maybe 10/12k€ will do the job
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When Stark talks about beating the competition in power, range and weight, and keeping a moderate 10% price premium, they talk specifically about gas motorcycles, not Zero or any other electrics.
I just brought the DSR/X as a useful point of reference about what electric adventure motorcycles look like at the moment. Not that hard to reach Stark Älg targets concerning power and range, Zero is already there or thereabouts, however Stark will really need to work their magic to get the weight way down, bring ultra fast charging, all the while decreasing price by a lot.
I just brought the DSR/X as a useful point of reference about what electric adventure motorcycles look like at the moment. Not that hard to reach Stark Älg targets concerning power and range, Zero is already there or thereabouts, however Stark will really need to work their magic to get the weight way down, bring ultra fast charging, all the while decreasing price by a lot.
OpaTsupa
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Looks like I'm the only one saddened that Stark is moving away from off-road and racing.
yes, thats it... they need and want to be better so i think they will be, lets trust them, they have proven many things in the past so no reason for not doing so
It's more like they're expanding the range of models. They are truly into off-road, many of them ride, but Anton Wass made this plan to go towards street bikes really clear in interviews since before Varg entered production.Looks like I'm the only one saddened that Stark is moving away from off-road and racing.
Maybe people thought that was just a pipe dream, more startup BS since it was before factory completion.
Starting with MX was really really clever, they had identified the main competition where electrics could shine against ICE and that generated so much interest (sorry trial boys, nobody cares
). It's a halo bike, proving the engineering prowess and building brand awareness. They're not getting away from dirt bikes, just expanding towards larger, more lucrative markets.
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Erwin P
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I think that Stark's competition that they're revering to is KTM. Stark has the same kind of shouty "fast 'n loud" approach as KTM and attract kind of the same people.
Also KTM is pretty much the leader where it comes to performance. So those are the guys to challenge and rever to.
Also KTM is pretty much the leader where it comes to performance. So those are the guys to challenge and rever to.
This makes sense and could be explained because an engine always need to be revving at least at idle speed, so if you are in a technical section at very low speeds with frequent stops trying to clear roots or rocks, you won't stop an engine from spinning, nor you will slow it down to some few revolutions per minute, even when you are still or moving at walking pace. You can do that with an electric motor.
