Jayfox911
Well-known member
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- 181
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- San Diego, CA
Was that an Alta at 3:55? On my phone it looked like one.
STARK VARG (Something new is coming!)
- Thread starter TCMB371
- Start date
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- 2,465
- Location
- Charlotte, NC
yup
C5tor
Chief Comedic Instigator
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- 1,720
- Location
- SF Bay Area, CA
Josh has some interesting things to say about the Varg vs. the Alta, and what it was like to ride both back to back, etc. He even mentions his stolen Alta, and how he actually does still have his original Alta. Also talks about how reliable the Alta has been, and how he has never done any repairs to either of his Altas. That's amazing considering how big he sends his bikes.
Butch
Poseur
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- 526
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- San Jose, California
How did I miss this thread? There must be another Vargish thread.
I love this magic shit. I love the internet. You can say freakin anything.
I love this magic shit. I love the internet. You can say freakin anything.
gprix1
Well-known member
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- 82
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- Kingman, AZ
It's been two years since I had my Alta MXR and now I've put a deposit on the 80hp version of the Varg. Delivery date shows November so they are already two months out from the first orders. Looking forward to getting back on an electric MX bike.
B. FRANK
Well-known member
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- 210
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- WASHINGTON CROSSING PENNSYLVANIA
I am wary of buying a first year run of anything! what if they don't stay in business? what if parts are hard to find and available ones are being bought up? what if year two addresses several shortcomings and really refines the bike? I already have some redheaded step children..ie Alta sm, gasgas 300 trials,trx250r, Norton 850 I don't have much hair left to be pulling out. I will wait and see.....nice to see another player in the market though.
- Likes
- 4,214
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- Lake Havasu City, AZ
Terms and conditions..."100$ deposit is fully refundable...." No brainer! You get in line and have a year to see what this company can produce. if you don't like it you can sell your place in line or just get a refund.
Lets hope the AMA doesn't do to them what they did to Alta and let them race! You know if one of the big 5 brands had ane bike they would have been allowed to race it. Could you imagine the frenzy if Alta would have gotten to line up at super cross and even finished mid pack? going out of business wouldn't have been an option.
Thanks AMA....all this time and you still somehow find a way to suck. Lets allow the VARG to breathe the way Alta should have been allowed to.
Lets hope the AMA doesn't do to them what they did to Alta and let them race! You know if one of the big 5 brands had ane bike they would have been allowed to race it. Could you imagine the frenzy if Alta would have gotten to line up at super cross and even finished mid pack? going out of business wouldn't have been an option.
Thanks AMA....all this time and you still somehow find a way to suck. Lets allow the VARG to breathe the way Alta should have been allowed to.
C5tor
Chief Comedic Instigator
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- 1,720
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- SF Bay Area, CA
- Likes
- 4,214
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- Lake Havasu City, AZ
The Stark Varg threads are are already in the Stark Varg forum! The things that you see in General are links.
I am still working on organizing the forum. I have been waiting for a thing like this to happen for a long time, but Stark Varg has still caught me by surprise!
+1, but in this case I'm going to pony up the $100 as a demand indicator. IMO it's especially important for US and other distant-country buyers to do this, as it may make Stark more likely to set up dealers (or at least importers) there. According to the Stark terms and conditions, the order will be cancelled if payment is not received within 48 hrs of delivery notification, so I shouldn't be forced to take a 1st-year bike.
Two price points available: $11,900 for 60hp option; $12,900 for 80hp option. The only other option that has a cost associated with it is the $100 sidestand. The free options are: colors: red, gray or white. Rear wheel: 18" enduro or 19" motocross. Rear Brake lever: choose left handlebar or right foot. Suspension: Choose between 7 suspension spring rates based on rider weight (10 lb increments).
On Tuesday 12/14, I ordered a gray one in 80hp config with 18" Enduro rear wheel and a side stand. We've had a pair of Surron X for a few years, but these last two years, I have been trying to be patient as I waited for the Surron Storm, but them came this. I'll only use this for trail riding like I do my Surron X, ICE bikes and ATVs. I would have bought a KTM Freeride by now but the 20 mile range from the 3.9 kWh battery won't cut it for trail riding. I get 30 - 35 miles out of the Surron X so if range isn't further than that, not starter. The Varg has 6kWh battery. I think Alta is 5.8 kWh, KTM is 3.9, Surron Storm is 4.6 and Surron X is 1.9 kWh.
My order has estimated fulfillment date of 9/24/2022 (though I expect that to stretch out into 2023, which I'm fine with). I normally don't like to be the Guinea pig, but just too anxious for a fullsize EV dirtbike so I'm willing to take a chance on this. Nearly bought an Alta 3 times (once right before the announcement they were closing and twice after on the used market) but couldn't get myself to pull the trigger since the company was no more. The same fate may happen with Stark, but at least at the time of delivery, one can expect them to be around for at least a few years. Ha.
A lot has changed since Alta was founded in 2009/2010. Final designs and production prep in 2013 and released in 2016. 2013 is 8 years ago! A lot has changed in that time (both tech and EV interest/acceptance). If Alta came out today, they likely would have survived. Maybe Stark will be the one that survives. If nothing else, hoping this is the catalyst that pushes the big established OEMs to release something similar. The competition will benefit design and economy of scale will benefit price points. KTM is just dipping their toes with the KTM Freeride and the small bikes, but they don't seem too interested in advancing or marketing the Freeride much less a full size EV motocross bike or enduro. If the Varg is well received, then perhaps that will change.
As for tech, pricepoint, etc. the Varg seems to be in a better place. Part of that is simply because ICE bike prices have gone up so much while EV tech has apparently allowed those prices to remain about the same. The price on the Varg is about what a KTM 450 costs and even the Japanese bike are within $2,000. Part of that is likely the factory direct sales. Compare that to the huge cost spread between ICE and the Alta. When Alta were $15,000 and later down to $12,000, you could by a KTM 450 for $8,000 - $9000 and a YZ450 for $7,000. So depending on what you were comparing and the year, the Alta was anywhere from 33% to 100% more expensive. With the price of ICE bikes now up to $9,500 - $12,000 (2022 YZ450 Racing Edition MSRP: $9,799. 2022 KTM 450 SX-F Factory Edition MSRP: $11,699), the two pricepoints of the Varg ($11,900 60hp or $12,900 80hp) won't weight much into the decision like it did just 4 or 5 years ago due to the spread between ICE and Alta. And even the weight being down to 242lbs is about the same as an ICE 450 with full gas tank.
The battery design is interesting as it took into consideration cooling of the cells. Some of the Alta cells are buried within the pack, but this design can, reportedly, keep all the cells cool and avoid overheating and reducing the power. They also note that they use a higher power motor because electric motors run most efficiently in the middle of their range, so they use a 80hp vs a motor that maxes out at 50hp for example so you are spending more time in the middle of the motors capability. Lots of other little details that will be interesting to see in person.
I ordered with the KYB suspension for my weight. They have 7 weight ranges in 10lb increments. After thinking about it, I realized these are sprung for motocross and mine will never see a track; Only enduro and trail riding. So I've inquired about changing my orders suspension to one or two weight ranges lower in an effort to emulate an enduro or even softer dual sport spring rate rather than stiff motocross feel.
On Tuesday 12/14, I ordered a gray one in 80hp config with 18" Enduro rear wheel and a side stand. We've had a pair of Surron X for a few years, but these last two years, I have been trying to be patient as I waited for the Surron Storm, but them came this. I'll only use this for trail riding like I do my Surron X, ICE bikes and ATVs. I would have bought a KTM Freeride by now but the 20 mile range from the 3.9 kWh battery won't cut it for trail riding. I get 30 - 35 miles out of the Surron X so if range isn't further than that, not starter. The Varg has 6kWh battery. I think Alta is 5.8 kWh, KTM is 3.9, Surron Storm is 4.6 and Surron X is 1.9 kWh.
My order has estimated fulfillment date of 9/24/2022 (though I expect that to stretch out into 2023, which I'm fine with). I normally don't like to be the Guinea pig, but just too anxious for a fullsize EV dirtbike so I'm willing to take a chance on this. Nearly bought an Alta 3 times (once right before the announcement they were closing and twice after on the used market) but couldn't get myself to pull the trigger since the company was no more. The same fate may happen with Stark, but at least at the time of delivery, one can expect them to be around for at least a few years. Ha.
A lot has changed since Alta was founded in 2009/2010. Final designs and production prep in 2013 and released in 2016. 2013 is 8 years ago! A lot has changed in that time (both tech and EV interest/acceptance). If Alta came out today, they likely would have survived. Maybe Stark will be the one that survives. If nothing else, hoping this is the catalyst that pushes the big established OEMs to release something similar. The competition will benefit design and economy of scale will benefit price points. KTM is just dipping their toes with the KTM Freeride and the small bikes, but they don't seem too interested in advancing or marketing the Freeride much less a full size EV motocross bike or enduro. If the Varg is well received, then perhaps that will change.
As for tech, pricepoint, etc. the Varg seems to be in a better place. Part of that is simply because ICE bike prices have gone up so much while EV tech has apparently allowed those prices to remain about the same. The price on the Varg is about what a KTM 450 costs and even the Japanese bike are within $2,000. Part of that is likely the factory direct sales. Compare that to the huge cost spread between ICE and the Alta. When Alta were $15,000 and later down to $12,000, you could by a KTM 450 for $8,000 - $9000 and a YZ450 for $7,000. So depending on what you were comparing and the year, the Alta was anywhere from 33% to 100% more expensive. With the price of ICE bikes now up to $9,500 - $12,000 (2022 YZ450 Racing Edition MSRP: $9,799. 2022 KTM 450 SX-F Factory Edition MSRP: $11,699), the two pricepoints of the Varg ($11,900 60hp or $12,900 80hp) won't weight much into the decision like it did just 4 or 5 years ago due to the spread between ICE and Alta. And even the weight being down to 242lbs is about the same as an ICE 450 with full gas tank.
The battery design is interesting as it took into consideration cooling of the cells. Some of the Alta cells are buried within the pack, but this design can, reportedly, keep all the cells cool and avoid overheating and reducing the power. They also note that they use a higher power motor because electric motors run most efficiently in the middle of their range, so they use a 80hp vs a motor that maxes out at 50hp for example so you are spending more time in the middle of the motors capability. Lots of other little details that will be interesting to see in person.
I ordered with the KYB suspension for my weight. They have 7 weight ranges in 10lb increments. After thinking about it, I realized these are sprung for motocross and mine will never see a track; Only enduro and trail riding. So I've inquired about changing my orders suspension to one or two weight ranges lower in an effort to emulate an enduro or even softer dual sport spring rate rather than stiff motocross feel.
There has been such a void in my life since selling my Alta a couple years ago. I've told my riding buddies that if I could get a solid 50 miles of single track out of an electric bike I'd be in again. Needless to say I pre-ordered the VARG. The Alta was the most fun I've ever had on two wheels. Love electric just needed a bit more than what the Alta was able to provide. The VARG looks promising. The fact that it's lighter than my Yamaha 450, has KYB suspension, gets better range than the Alta, more power, and with a LHRB out of the gate... it's almost too good to be true. I can not wait. So stoked!
No clutch on the Varg. The only offroad EV bikes I know of with a clutch are the race version of that French trials bike (Electric Motion Epure Race) which has not gears but needs it for pop and that new little 4 speed small dirtbike (Time Electric Dirtbike).
enjoythesilenc
Well-known member
- Likes
- 263
- Location
- virginia
i could have sworn i noticed the address bar saying electric dirt riders or whatever you chose as the new website name. Am i wrong, i see the normal AOF address now?The Stark Varg threads are are already in the Stark Varg forum! The things that you see in General are links.
I am still working on organizing the forum. I have been waiting for a thing like this to happen for a long time, but Stark Varg has still caught me by surprise!
by the way, i'm interested to see just how much Alta DNA the stark bike has. I'm suspicious that it has a fair bit, which is not a bad thing. I can get behind a swedish alta, built in spain, shipped to florida.
wfopete
Well-known member
- Likes
- 49
- Location
- Land of NOD
I ask Stark what the top speed was. With OEM gearing: 87mph
Good. The Alta's were only good to about what; 60mph ?
Good. The Alta's were only good to about what; 60mph ?
Butch
Poseur
- Likes
- 526
- Location
- San Jose, California
Pretty sure I saw 80 on a SM. Vaporware can do anything.
leeo45
Geezer in denial
- Likes
- 576
- Location
- Lake Hartwell, SC
I have never tried to reach the terminal speed, but my EXR easily gets to 70 mph on the GPS with stock gearing and a 6'-3" rider (me) NOT in a tuck.
I don't see replacing either of my ALTAs with a Varg unless the range proves to be much greater than the ALTA, and that would primarily be relevant for me if they decide to sell a street legal bike. However, I certainly hope they are successful, especially in the U.S. market.
- Likes
- 990
- Location
- Connecticut
Being that Europe is closing MX tracks due to noise, I think the Varg is going to provide a glimmer of hope to keeping their riding areas open.
Alta never really expressed any interest in going hard after the Euro market. Stark states they going after that market, trying to fulfill that need.
US customer demand for the Varg will less than Europe's (percentage-wise), but it'll still be substantial just based on the US market size.
Alta never really expressed any interest in going hard after the Euro market. Stark states they going after that market, trying to fulfill that need.
US customer demand for the Varg will less than Europe's (percentage-wise), but it'll still be substantial just based on the US market size.
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