Thinking about getting another e-dirt bike: Which One?

[bayodome]

Concerning MX bikes: What must happen first in my opinion, are rules for E-MX competition bikes from the Motorsportauthorities. There must be rules, which say something about enginepower (min-max), battery energy (min-max), which is obilgatory, to be allowed to compete in different classes, to be built. As long as we have no rules, no manufacturer, like the 4 japanese or KTM, will build E_MX bikes. When this rules are given, manufacturers and the privat people can build their products and compete. Without rules, the competition will never begin!

From a mass production standpoint for the major OEMs, I will agree with you on your point.

For conversions, however, I disagree. Standards are good to have for many reasons (mostly for safety), but for the moment and for conversions, I don't see why it would be necessary. If it's strictly regarding competition then the answer is simple for the moment: E-Open classes based off age and/or skill level. The power output is up to the bike and rider. Open classes already exist for ICEs, so I don't see why it would be different for E motos.

Most people who ride dirt bikes don't race anyway, so from a sales standpoint, competition standards only affect most consumers indirectly.

 

[DonCox]

I had seen the Pohlbock before also. It is a beautiful piece. They do great work. But like @bayodome says, we need a kit that equals the Alta in performace and endurance that goes onto a proven bike and suspension.
You are right also @wwmotors, we need a definition of how we can race these. But you can see that the Alta can and does equal a Pro level 250F bikes in watching the RedBull Straight Rhythm.

So if we don't have a set of rules yet, the Alta performace will be the benchmark.
If there was a race today, which I think could be sooner than later, Alta would the standard you would have to equal or better. What comes first, two or more people chasing each other around a track on there home grown electrics, or waiting to get rules. Alta nor Tesla waited for a set of rule, but just built a awesome unit. I heard that KTM did try to buy Alta but Harley squashed it, but I never saw this officially.

 

[F451]

I believe a well executed e-dirt bike along the lines of the Alta MXR, but in a lighter package, with a quick change battery, 110/240V quick charger, priced similar or cheaper then a new Alta, will sell like hot cakes regardless of whether there are formal race classes to support it. Once enough of them were out there, the race classes will follow, likely at the amatuer level first, then moving up the ranks as the bikes and concept prove out, and people get used to seeing them.

I also believe a complete bike from a major like KTM, Honda, Yamaha, would sell much better then kits, but I welcome all forms of e-dirt bikes and can see both options selling well.

Remember that the KTM 350 did not have its own class when it was introduced and many people questioned KTM's decision to bring it to market. Its now one of KTM's best selling dirt bikes and is widely regarded as one of the best all around dirt bike out there.

KTM has a long history of taking risks by selling dirt bikes in unusual displacements (150, 200, 510, etc), plus they have their SX-E 5 electric mini, and of course their 7/8's sized Freeride E-XC, so I'm hoping, and praying (is that wrong? Lol) that KTM will introduce a full sized e-dirt bike soon and we can all ride off into the sunset happy as e-clams.

 

[Judaslefourbe]

I believe a well executed e-dirt bike along the lines of the Alta MXR, but in a lighter package, with a quick change battery, 110/240V quick charger, priced similar or cheaper then a new Alta

For having personally sourced and negotiated the price of half the BOM on that bike, I would be very surprised if someone comes up with similar performance at a cheaper price in the next couple of years.
I sure hope I'm wrong though.

 

[makaiman]

My buddy finally posted a address where you can ask him questions. I thought it was a website, but it is page with the bike picture, and an email address to post questions.
Sales@XtremelectricMX.com

That looks really interesting! Do you happen to know price range for these kits, and where he is located? I did not see it on that page or site. I sent them a message last night though, on Christmass Eve... lol This might be a good option for bigger guys, and people that do not want a smaller dirt bike!?! Depending on how easy it is to do the conversion, and how good someone is a wrenching on dirt bikes. I am not very good at it really! lol

 

[DonCox]

That looks really interesting! Do you happen to know price range for these kits, and where he is located? I did not see it on that page or site. I sent them a message last night though, on Christmass Eve... lol This might be a good option for bigger guys, and people that do not want a smaller dirt bike!?! Depending on how easy it is to do the conversion, and how good someone is a wrenching on dirt bikes. I am not very good at it really! lol

Makiman,
Yes I know the guy at XtremelectricMX quiie well. His name is Mark, and he lives in Florida. I am in Lake havasu City AZ. He has one for sale right now on Ebay. The same model that I have. I have it running , but with a temporary battery ( only 200A) Here is a youtube of it running .

He has a kit for sale on EBay YAMAHA 2014-2018 YZ250F/450F ELECTRIC MOTOR | eBay
Here are some pictures of our XEMX 2014 YZ bike without the battery and then pictures of the battery box. The battery can be made for quick change. Talk to Mark about that.
I can build a battery with 240 Molicel 21700 cells. That will give you 72V(84V peak) 540A in that aluminum box, that can be quick changed.
Don

 

[makaiman]

I emailed them... So, the $4,500 includes everything? Does it include a good long lasting battery, does say it includes a battery? Perhaps the battery that comes with the kit, is not so good? Did not see info. on the battery supplied with the kit... I should look at the E Bay thing again, i guess. I need to know specs on the motor/controller.... for the conversion kit too. H.P., top speed (approximately i weigh about 190 lbs., little over average perhaps, lol).... torque....

You can build a battery for the conversion? Can u build replacement batteries for Alta's, by chance? Know of nice looking Alta for sale, but has code 36 showing... Don't know who i could get to fix it, at the moment... Might be less expensive to do a conversion... on a YZ... and end up lighter than an Alta!?! That would be cool, if as fast or almost as fast an an Alta, and reliable too!

Getting back to the conversion kit, I see it says, "only minor mods. need to be done to frame", that part is kinda worrisome to me! lol Not to mention I am not the best mechanic in the world anyway! lol

Thanks for the info Don!!! Very interesting! Robert

 

[DonCox]

I emailed them... So, the $4,500 includes everything? Does it include a good long lasting battery, does say it includes a battery? Perhaps the battery that comes with the kit, is not so good? Did not see info. on the battery supplied with the kit... I should look at the E Bay thing again, i guess. I need to know specs on the motor/controller.... for the conversion kit too. H.P., top speed (approximately i weigh about 190 lbs., little over average perhaps, lol).... torque....

You can build a battery for the conversion? Can u build replacement batteries for Alta's, by chance? Know of nice looking Alta for sale, but has code 36 showing... Don't know who i could get to fix it, at the moment... Might be less expensive to do a conversion... on a YZ... and end up lighter than an Alta!?! That would be cool, if as fast or almost as fast an an Alta, and reliable too!

Getting back to the conversion kit, I see it says, "only minor mods. need to be done to frame", that part is kinda worrisome to me! lol Not to mention I am not the best mechanic in the world anyway! lol

Thanks for the info Don!!! Very interesting! Robert

Robert,
I can say right off it takes quite the mechanic, fabricator, crafter to build an Electric bike or vehicle from scratch. Not to try to discourage you there is a lot involved.
I have built from scratch, and it takes a lot of time and expense to build that way. What Mark has done, has brought that work down to a minimum. The mods to the frame can be done easily, grinding off a few brackets, bolt his motor in, and put the chain on it. That was at least 6 months of work to get to that point on my built from scratch bike, and expensive. His product is built for this purpose and is beautiful from a machinist's view. There is more to do next, and that takes some electrical experience. He can supply controllers, wiring harness, battery cases, flip up seat bracketing, configured to the motor and power you want.
But the battery is the most complex and important part of the performance. Unfortunately that is why they are expensive too.
You need the right battery models to get the momentary power you need the right quantity of cells, and size for the weight and size that you need.
Talk to Mark and he can clue you into the prices of the parts, but don't be shocked at over $3000 to build a good battery, and more if you want the capacity of the the Alta.
Also talk to Mark at XEMX about fixing the Alta batteries. He has experience in that too.
Hope this info helps.
Don
If you are not a builder, the Alta with a bad battery (code 36) is a better option for some. They can be fixed.

 

[makaiman]

Robert,
I can say right off it takes quite the mechanic, fabricator, crafter to build an Electric bike or vehicle from scratch. Not to try to discourage you there is a lot involved.
I have built from scratch, and it takes a lot of time and expense to build that way. What Mark has done, has brought that work down to a minimum. The mods to the frame can be done easily, grinding off a few brackets, bolt his motor in, and put the chain on it. That was at least 6 months of work to get to that point on my built from scratch bike, and expensive. His product is built for this purpose and is beautiful from a machinist's view. There is more to do next, and that takes some electrical experience. He can supply controllers, wiring harness, battery cases, flip up seat bracketing, configured to the motor and power you want.
But the battery is the most complex and important part of the performance. Unfortunately that is why they are expensive too.
You need the right battery models to get the momentary power you need the right quantity of cells, and size for the weight and size that you need.
Talk to Mark and he can clue you into the prices of the parts, but don't be shocked at over $3000 to build a good battery, and more if you want the capacity of the the Alta.
Also talk to Mark at XEMX about fixing the Alta batteries. He has experience in that too.
Hope this info helps.
Don
If you are not a builder, the Alta with a bad battery (code 36) is a better option for some. They can be fixed.

Thanks a lot for the info Don! Did not hear back from Mark yet... Well, no one would want to start the conversion then get stuck at some point....,, that might be bad! lol

Anyway, sounds like the kit comes with that little temporary battery u had mentioned for $4,500? and a real battery with real ride time.... that works good, is gonna cost $3000 plus, if i understand u correctly... So, if we take away $1,000 for the battery it comes with... So, 4,500 - 1,000 = $3,500 + 3,500 (good battery) = $7,000 min + (a YZ to convert) = total cost of materials.... not including labor. Does that sound close?

If someone got a good deal on an Alta, that might be better, although the Alta might be heavier than the conversion... thanks again for all the info.!

p.s. Can u fix Alta's with a Code 36? U prob. can, but would u like to do it, in this case perhaps? lol Or do you know the best person to have do that? Do you know if they can ALWAYS be fixed? I read on here somewhere that one guy who is pretty good at fixing them, said he can fix about 2 outta 3 Alta's with code 36..., if i recall correctly. I guess I would ship the battery to u or whoever was going to fix it? Thanks!