Varg suspension

[Lvproj]

Going with the following shim stacks with RaceTech gold valves. I'm definitely no pro but on my Alta i tried RaceTech's A-class setting and RaceTech's Pro setting and the pro setting was a lot more confidence inspiring so i'm trying that first on my Varg. Interestingly, the shim stacks RaceTech provided for my Varg's KYB shock very closely mimics the shim stacks provided for my Alta's WP shock (which i fricken love). I guess that shouldn't be surprising since both are 50mm shocks using the same gold valve kit.

I currently have .51+.54 for a 1.05kg combined fork spring rate and a 6.0kg shock. May order a 6.3kg shock

View attachment 12105
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[Lvproj]

Bryan, here are my GV specs. They are for a much softer suspension than what you would want, but I think it will be interesting to compare the shim stack recommendations we both received from Race Tech. -Don

 

[Lvproj]

Here is a PDF that compares my GV specs to your GV spec

 

[TCMB371]

@Lvproj just wanted to point out the effective differences.

Fork:

The two .30x15 shims at the bottom of your LSV stack are acting as spacers since they are larger than the smallest shim. We effectively have very similar LSV's with a 12mm clamp shim. Mine is slightly stiffer with the 19 and 17 added in.

Your base valve stack is much softer overall, with a 16mm clamp and less face shims compared to my 20mm clamp.

Your mid valve stack is much softer as well, but not for the reasons you highlighted. The 6mm ID shims are just spacing shims to set the float on the compression stack. My stack is single stage vs your two stage (more digressive) and has more face shims. We both have 10mm clamp shims but your 0.40mm of float makes the overall compression damping much softer than mine.

Same rebound stack on the midvalve which is interesting because i'm running much stiffer springs than you.

Shock:



Your shock compression stack is softer with less face shims , a thicker crossover shim, and a smaller 21mm clamp shim vs my 22.

Your rebound stack is softer as well and that makes sense since i'm running a much stiffer spring which requires more damping to tame .You also have a larger rebound separator bleed by 0.3mm which further softens the rebound circuit overall.

After an initial ride on the setup , I feel like i need a little more compression damping in the front and quite a lot in the rear, and the rebound doesn't rebound quick enough. I'll be tearing the forks and shock apart again to make the following changes:

LSV: step up to 13mm clamp.
Base Valve Comp: step up to 21 clamp and add a .10x30 face shim.
Mid Valve Comp: change the .30x10x8 clamp to a 0.30x12x8 clamp. Keep float at 0.25mm.
Shock Comp: remove the .25x22 clamp (to step up to a 24mm clamp) and add a .25x44 face shim.
Shock Rebound: remove one face shim for less/quicker rebound.

 

[Lvproj]

@Lvproj just wanted to point out the effective differences.

Fork:
View attachment 12522
The two .30x15 shims at the bottom of your LSV stack are acting as spacers since they are larger than the smallest shim. We effectively have very similar LSV's with a 12mm clamp shim. Mine is slightly stiffer with the 19 and 17 added in.

Your base valve stack is much softer overall, with a 16mm clamp and less face shims compared to my 20mm clamp.

Your mid valve stack is much softer as well, but not for the reasons you highlighted. The 6mm ID shims are just spacing shims to set the float on the compression stack. My stack is single stage vs your two stage (more digressive) and has more face shims. We both have 10mm clamp shims but your 0.40mm of float makes the overall compression damping much softer than mine.

Same rebound stack on the midvalve which is interesting because i'm running much stiffer springs than you.

Shock:

View attachment 12523

Your shock compression stack is softer with less face shims , a thicker crossover shim, and a smaller 21mm clamp shim vs my 22.

Your rebound stack is softer as well and that makes sense since i'm running a much stiffer spring which requires more damping to tame .You also have a larger rebound separator bleed by 0.3mm which further softens the rebound circuit overall.

After an initial ride on the setup , I feel like i need a little more compression damping in the front and quite a lot in the rear, and the rebound doesn't rebound quick enough. I'll be tearing the forks and shock apart again to make the following changes:

LSV: step up to 13mm clamp.
Base Valve Comp: step up to 21 clamp and add a .10x30 face shim.
Mid Valve Comp: change the .30x10x8 clamp to a 0.30x12x8 clamp. Keep float at 0.25mm.
Shock Comp: remove the .25x22 clamp (to step up to a 24mm clamp) and add a .25x44 face shim.
Shock Rebound: remove one face shim for less/quicker rebound.

Thanks for the feedback Bryan. I was wondering what your impressions were of your setup after your first ride. Sometime in January I’d like to tear my forks and shock down and firm them up a bit. I am looking for greater ability to absorb big hits.

 

[Lvproj]

I am curious though about how much shock spring preload you are needing to achieve target sag. with your heavier spring, I am imagining that you need very little, like maybe 2mm? Are you running 103mm for sag?

 

[Theo]

In the mid valve shim stacks there are some shims having three dimensions, for example
.10 X 20 X 8
.10 should mean 0.10 mm thick, 20 should mean Ø20 mm but what does the 8 mean?
EDIT: I've just re-read the posts above and apparently the 8 is the inside diameter of the shims and it's specified because the other ones having 6 mm ID are just spacing shims, I guess because of the shape of their holder.

Another question: what torque do you apply to tighten the rebound adjuster in the fork? I've read 29 Nm when the adjuster is tightened against that lock nut that you hold with a 15 mm spanner and 50Nm when it's tightened into the axle bracket...

 

[TCMB371]

In the mid valve shim stacks there are some shims having three dimensions, for example
.10 X 20 X 8
.10 should mean 0.10 mm thick, 20 should mean Ø20 mm but what does the 8 mean?
EDIT: I've just re-read the posts above and apparently the 8 is the inside diameter of the shims and it's specified because the other ones having 6 mm ID are just spacing shims, I guess because of the shape of their holder.

Another question: what torque do you apply to tighten the rebound adjuster in the fork? I've read 29 Nm when the adjuster is tightened against that lock nut that you hold with a 15 mm spanner and 50Nm when it's tightened into the axle bracket...

The 6mm ID shims are "extender" shims that raise the piston off the cup and allow the shim stack (8mm ID) to move before they deflect. That movement is called float. This allows the fork to move really freely under low velocity situations like in corners, while still providing a lot of damping (with a stiff stack) as the velocities increase. With this type of setup you get the benefits of a plush setup (traction, comfort) and the benefits of a stiff setup (holdup, support).

 

[TCMB371]

Another question: what torque do you apply to tighten the rebound adjuster in the fork? I've read 29 Nm when the adjuster is tightened against that lock nut that you hold with a 15 mm spanner and 50Nm when it's tightened into the axle bracket...

 

[Fog 25]

Another question: what torque do you apply to tighten the rebound adjuster in the fork? I've read 29 Nm when the adjuster is tightened against that lock nut that you hold with a 15 mm spanner and 50Nm when it's tightened into the axle bracket...

I always use the German torque specs “Gutentite” If you don’t want to use German torque specs I would use the torque specs that Bryan posted.

 

[AL_V]

I always use the German torque specs. “Gooding tight” if you don’t want to use German torque specs I would use the torque specs that Bryan posted.

Perhaps you meant "Gutentite" ?

 

[Fog 25]

Perhaps you meant "Gutentite" ?

Thanks went back and corrected.

 

[markhamr]

The kyb suspension is very adjustable and allows most to get the bike in the ballpark
Without running too jbi racetech etc
Correct spring rate for your weight and riding style is critical
You might even check the springs yourself
Do not forget to include sag and ride height into the equation
A rookie mistake would be to run low tyre pressures
buy tyres best suited to your riding conditions
the stockers are below average
I tend to run things above if anything
i hate getting flats too apart from the hundred other issues running them soft brings up
The obvious problem with the suspension is it is trying to handle a lot more weight
jump up and down now pick up a 35 lb weight and jump up and down
i came from a fc450 husq
i did not even bother adjusting anything untill i had put a few hours on the bike
I started with the original settings phillip used on his bike went from there
Do not forget bar setup
I could go on all day about various riding styles conditions track types
Think about what you need are trying too achieve you will be half way there
Above all ride safe

 

[LTJ]

I just got my SV MX revalved for trail riding. I told the tuner (Rocco Racing) I wanted it plush but with good holdup. I ride mostly flowy single track with a lot of braking and acceleration bumps. Stock, the suspension with the clickers backed all the way out was tolerable. It was great in the fast stuff, but was a bit of a jack hammer on breaking bumps. The re-valved suspension definately was a step in the right direction, but I'm still getting a little more feedback through the bars than I like. In comparison I have a 21 KTM 300 and 2017 KTM 500 with Keft Suspension, both are flippen amazing with trail trash. The Kreft 500 is excellent with great holdup and plush. The 300 is super plush but can wallow a bit on whoops. The re-valved SV is not as plush as the 300 or 500. I talked to Rocco and figured that the difference is 1) the WP is open cartridge and tends to be more plush than the KYB and 2) both my 300 and 500 have BRP rubber bar mounts. I'm gonna try Flexx bars to addtess the jack hammer feeling I get on braking bumps (down hill is the worst). I think this may be the ticket as I run flexx bars on my e-bike and they are amazing.

Rocco is awesome to deal with and offered to re-valve again for free but warned that if I go too soft on the damping, it may wallow. By the way, Rocco is a Fox Suspension Engineer also.