New App update and subscription option

[AL_V]

Race mode is already free on current MX is it not…?

Will an update be removing that from my app when it updates now?

I think it’s a free trial, but will eventually require a subscription.

 

[Raindog]

I shot them an email back after the video email saying this...

Great, apparently this update leaves out basically everyone who has purchased an MX in the last couple years.

Actually got a fairly quick response...

No, it will be launched on the MX as well.
Once deployed you will get a the normal notification to update the APP.

This was from the marketing director at Stark

 

[Swank171]

Haha, I won’t be updating!

 

[Swank171]

Wondering if I should just part with my gen 1 and wait a year and see what is new.

Anyone wanna talk me out of it? What reason to stay? MX abandoned, initial promises not met and we already have the subscription model. Hmmm.

 

[Raindog]

How did you get that out of what I wrote?

 

[Swank171]

How did you get that out of what I wrote?

It’s a general thought directed to the thread here in the forum.

Not an e mail chain response to YOU individually….

I’m an original order and I know some of us who ordered the first day or first week feel like we got the shaft. And continue to get it through broken promises. These updates come out and further alienate the early support/investments those of us who believed in them when they hardly had a prototype.

 

[Beagle]

It’s a general thought directed to the thread here in the forum.

Not an e mail chain response to YOU individually….

I’m an original order and I know some of us who ordered the first day or first week feel like we got the shaft. And continue to get it through broken promises. These updates come out and further alienate the early support/investments those of us who believed in them when they hardly had a prototype.

Not sure I follow you.
I don't like the SaaS model, paying to unlock extra features but what would be real bad would be Stark not offering this update with these new possibilities for the MX.
When the update comes you'll just have more possibilities, unfortunately paying, similar to what EX owners, who ordered a couple of years later, can have.

 

[bodacious swgr]

It’s a general thought directed to the thread here in the forum.

Not an e mail chain response to YOU individually….

I’m an original order and I know some of us who ordered the first day or first week feel like we got the shaft. And continue to get it through broken promises. These updates come out and further alienate the early support/investments those of us who believed in them when they hardly had a prototype.

Heavily agree with this. As someone who also preordered day 1 Stark has continually left me with disappointment. First they undercut the price of all models (twice) and now free features they teased in all the marketing are apparently part of a paid subscription for a bike we already own?

I get putting the GPS thing behind a pay wall but the ability to adjust power curves and enable race mode should not be paid features lol. Not to mention there are also a million other “trail app” alternatives to what stark is offering that probably have a much more sophisticated network of places to explore.

Is Stark a new company and should they get some leeway? Sure, but this just simply bad business practice. At this point I would’ve already abandoned ship but unfortunately they basically have zero competition when it comes to full-size real electric dirt bikes. Can’t way for one of the OEMs to release something solid so these guys learn to value their customer base a little bit more.

 

[Swank171]

Exactly…..all the promises of a bike you can tune to your liking day 1 and then years later, as we still wait for the promises made they start coming behind the beloved pay wall.

We will see what OEM will go first! YAMAHA invested in e motion and I think all of us expected Honda to have already dropped one. KTM has shown it’s only half in.

I mean, I never even got the recalled footpegs, my side stand is still not able to be deployed unless it’s in the garage or it falls over. I could go on forever. i reached out multiple times and they have ZERO interest in treating early buyers like they have any value to them. This stuff just stacks up….

So now every time they make an announcement there is a faction of us who get mad because we have been forgotten about and stark originally made a lot of promises that were just abandoned.

We DID get the light weight tubes though….man am I happy that made it into the first wave of production!!! How did I ever ride without the ultra light tubes!!! Haha.

 

[Chaconne]

Heavily agree with this. As someone who also preordered day 1 Stark has continually left me with disappointment. First they undercut the price of all models (twice) and now free features they teased in all the marketing are apparently part of a paid subscription for a bike we already own?

I get putting the GPS thing behind a pay wall but the ability to adjust power curves and enable race mode should not be paid features lol. Not to mention there are also a million other “trail app” alternatives to what stark is offering that probably have a much more sophisticated network of places to explore.

Is Stark a new company and should they get some leeway? Sure, but this just simply bad business practice. At this point I would’ve already abandoned ship but unfortunately they basically have zero competition when it comes to full-size real electric dirt bikes. Can’t way for one of the OEMs to release something solid so these guys learn to value their customer base a little bit more.

Not sure I follow. Nobody lowers the price on something if the market will bear more. Stark --like every other business-- is in the money making business and if they don't have to lower prices to try to increase sales then they won't. Were you expecting them to warehouse bikes they couldn't sell to hold the price you paid? I doubt their investors would have stood for something like that.

It is probably true that they "teased" features but that is not like a guarantee. Stark is in business to make money --like every other business-- and businesses have to change in order match market demands dictated by sales and profitability. Or be a KTM in court with thousands of unsold bikes.

Stark has zero competition for a reason. Even the Chinese (who could surely match Stark if not better them for less money) aren't clamoring to enter the full-size electric dirt bike market. It probably is not worth it. And the other OEMs can just look at the KTM warehouses full of thousands of unsold ICE inventory and will pause on any smaller new markets. It is probably only the Europeans who were positioned to do a Stark in the first place.

I get your disappointment and I am not defending them with regard to your expectations. But Stark is likely encountering headwinds like the rest of the motorcycle market and improving margins by selling software is probably music to their investor's ears. Stark was always considered a "platform" nobody in their right mind (in the 2020s) would bring out an expensive novelty tech to an extremely limited market that couldn't be used to generate recurring revenue --you can't get core startup investors if you don't have that in the plan. Just saying.

 

[Swank171]

I see what you are saying I I can’t fault them for dropping the price. I’m sure it was harder for them to see the loss per unit than it was for us to see our bikes undercut….thats supply and demand.

Speaking to KTM….well. They didn’t listen to their customers. They kept making bikes that were heavier and less powerful than the Chinese bikes that were half the price. You can’t expect people to buy it cause you slap a KTM sticker on it. The demand was there….look at VARG day 2 orders….KTM had that market sitting there and they kept the freeride unchanged for how many years!?! As we all screamed for another ALTA they refused to cut into the sales of the ICE.

Also can’t use KTM as an example because they were operating as if they were too big to fail, producing more and more disregarding the market demands assuming they could just weather the storm. Any manufacturer that followed the business model they did would be in the same position.

Stark didn’t tease, they made promises to early buyers. Not saying everyone should get everything free but to people who bought before they had production models they should at least give free premium to for the life of that bike. That isn’t too much to ask….12$ a month to early buyers? People who funded the company when they didn’t even have an actual product?

Also maybe send us the pegs that break cause that’s a recall and fix my kickstand…? Hahah.

You assume it’s not worth it for these brands…ITS NOT, I’ve gone into depth about this before. It’s the same reason they murdered the 2 stroke. Allowing double displacement in the class for “emissions” because oil burning 2 strokes are dirty and gas burning 4 strokes are clean….hahah.

The mafia wants your money and nothing is more expensive to maintain than a 4 stroke.
The rise of the 4 strokes ended my racing career cause I moved from a 125 to 250f to keep up and the maintenance quadrupled. No more traveling for me.

These OEMS see a threat with electric….especially in the supercross realm. Imagine how much they lose in the aftermarket/maintenance segment if stark captures an eighth of the market share just running in the main at all. Even if the battery dies….or getting a holeshot and then ending up 15th. You know how many people would buy?

I could go into depth and show all the proof for this but we risk going way off topic when the whole point is giving stark the benifits of the doubt because ktm was running a flawed business model and big OEMS haven’t thrown the hat in the ring is an outsiders perspective. It’s a political mess and the likes of the AMA/OEM MAFIA control what gets raced.

 

[Aleksandar13]

So is this coming on the mx ? If yes then great I’d be all over it and can’t wait to be able to navigate on trails without using another nav app that always switches back between screen when you go in gear !! I understand people don’t like the subscription but for a decent navigation app for trails you end up paying anyway and if their one is decent and you can have it integrated then it’s worth it , the adjustable map is interesting although I don’t know if I’d like to mess with it ?! Did anyone think of what a curve would look like to make it more appealing and what benefits does this have over switching between maps !
For example if I’d be on the top of the mountain coming down I would use regen a lot more then I would going up as it makes sense to conserve battery !

 

[bodacious swgr]

Not sure I follow. Nobody lowers the price on something if the market will bear more. Stark --like every other business-- is in the money making business and if they don't have to lower prices to try to increase sales then they won't. Were you expecting them to warehouse bikes they couldn't sell to hold the price you paid? I doubt their investors would have stood for something like that.

It is probably true that they "teased" features but that is not like a guarantee. Stark is in business to make money --like every other business-- and businesses have to change in order match market demands dictated by sales and profitability. Or be a KTM in court with thousands of unsold bikes.

Stark has zero competition for a reason. Even the Chinese (who could surely match Stark if not better them for less money) aren't clamoring to enter the full-size electric dirt bike market. It probably is not worth it. And the other OEMs can just look at the KTM warehouses full of thousands of unsold ICE inventory and will pause on any smaller new markets. It is probably only the Europeans who were positioned to do a Stark in the first place.

I get your disappointment and I am not defending them with regard to your expectations. But Stark is likely encountering headwinds like the rest of the motorcycle market and improving margins by selling software is probably music to their investor's ears. Stark was always considered a "platform" nobody in their right mind (in the 2020s) would bring out an expensive novelty tech to an extremely limited market that couldn't be used to generate recurring revenue --you can't get core startup investors if you don't have that in the plan. Just saying.

I get what you mean with the supply and demand thing. Guess I didn’t pay attention enough in economics class haha. I think my main problem isn’t as much with the price as it is with the constant jerking around. If I recall correctly the bike was originally advertised for x amount, then they hiked everything up an extra 1k only to double slash the price later. Luckily they did still honor my original preorder price so it wasn’t as impactful as it could’ve been but if I had paid the extra cash without an early slot it would be pretty upsetting.

Yes the idea of being able to sell software package on a dirt bike probably is a goldmine, but they are supposedly locking features that were either promised to be free, or actually were free for a time behind this new paywall (ie race mode). Also I do doubt that the Chinese would be capable of making a bike that rivals stark considering the amount of RND and testing that has gone into it. Most Chinese bikes are more of a cheap gimmick than actually rideable. Just take the light emoto class as an example where a majority of bikes constantly experience issues and break down. Without putting a minimum of 5k upgrades on any of those bikes it’s just a matter of time before something fails on them.