EX Custom iOS/Android App

For me it's more to use another Android phone. Just in case of back-up so when on a multi day Enduro trip a very misfortunate placed rock wouldn't complicate the trip that much.

After you replied to me in ste Stark FB group i got curious and looked for some info, and here i am ahaha looking for the android app, if you want a gen 1 Varg tester (who knows if it works ahahah) i'm here

fedesm297 said:

After you replied to me in ste Stark FB group i got curious and looked for some info, and here i am ahaha looking for the android app, if you want a gen 1 Varg tester (who knows if it works ahahah) i'm here

Click to expand...

I haven't experimented with the MX series yet but from my understanding the 1.2.8 VCU firmware is the first version thats the same between MX/EX models. Stark did have something in the release notes mentioning they aren't using the new bluetooth interface for MX models, but I don't know if that means its not enabled/doesn't work yet, or whether this app would just work out of the box. I have made sure that the VIN detection supports both models so hopefully once the app is released someone with an MX bike can test things out.

Apple has approved the build I submitted and it's now available for public testing. If you'd like to test it out please join the Public Test Group which is managed via Apple's TestFlight system. Feel free to give feedback either here or via the built-in TestFlight feedback mechanism (taking a screenshot). I should have time later this week to begin working on getting the Android equivalent ready and approved for public testing.

When you open the app for the first time it should request that you enable bluetooth permissions (and enable bluetooth if its disabled). You should then see a list with (hopefully) your Stark. Hitting connect should prompt you to put in the PIN which will be provided on the connection screen (the app may connect before the pin is fully inserted, I honestly am not sure how this happens but it seems if you don't correctly put in the PIN future connections may not work). At this point the bike should fully connect and provide you with the main home screen.

If you don't see your bike check that:
- The Stark phone is not connected. It's easiest to turn off the Stark phone but you can also turn off Bluetooth and quickly connect on the iOS app before the Stark phone re-enables Bluetooth and attempts to reconnect.
- The bike is either on or in the normal standby version of off. In the long-term storage off mode the VCU is completely disabled.
- You are within Bluetooth range, on my iphone this is significantly longer than on the Stark phone.

A few notes for those interested in testing:
- Apple takes a few days to review and approve builds so some stuff has already changed or been fixed. This is the first actual public build and that means it might not work at all for some people with different phone or bike combinations. Even if the app just crashes or displays nothing that's a useful data-point for me to know and I'll chip away at fixing those issues over the next few weeks.
- The "advanced dashboard" setting is recommended and will display extra telemetry data on the main dashboard screen. This build has a few issues with this data right now, namely the amperage value isn't correct and the HP value is missing.
- The "service mode" setting is also recommended as it enables an entire sub-menu which displays almost all of the data from the VCU. If the bike is off, charging, or in neutral some of these values will be compeltely bogus. In a future version of the app I'll try and more clearly denote what data points are showing valid values. There will likely also be a disclaimer screen for the future, warning this is an advanced feature and may not be useful to the average user.
- The current battery page displays more information in a overly-dense fashion and will eventually get redesigned to show more relevant information. Right now this acts much more like a service-mode level diagnostic page.
- The data recording feature in the service menu will move to the home screen and be available without enabling the service mode features. For now this feature exports a SQLite3 database file with around 10 data points per second of resolution around pretty much all the important values the VCU sends plus GPS data from the phone. Future builds will include the ability to configure what is recorded and also export this data in other formats like CSV and GPX. Unlike the Stark app all of this data remains local on your device to increase privacy.
- There is very little documentation on what fields and properties mean what or which units they use. If you have specific questions I might be able to answer them but the exact details of what means what aren't always obvious (this is part of the reason Stark probably doesn't want the average user poking around in this data).
- I'd love to hear what you think is missing or could be presented in a more clear/useful way. While I can promise I'll implement anything I'd love for the app to be a well rounded utility that can be useful to any Stark owner.

Thanks for the interest and I hope the app works as well for you as it has been for me!

brongle said:

Apple has approved the build I submitted and it's now available for public testing. If you'd like to test it out please join the Public Test Group which is managed via Apple's TestFlight system. Feel free to give feedback either here or via the built-in TestFlight feedback mechanism (taking a screenshot). I should have time later this week to begin working on getting the Android equivalent ready and approved for public testing.

When you open the app for the first time it should request that you enable bluetooth permissions (and enable bluetooth if its disabled). You should then see a list with (hopefully) your Stark. Hitting connect should prompt you to put in the PIN which will be provided on the connection screen (the app may connect before the pin is fully inserted, I honestly am not sure how this happens but it seems if you don't correctly put in the PIN future connections may not work). At this point the bike should fully connect and provide you with the main home screen.

Click to expand...

I just installed on my iphone and connected to my MX.
I was trying to figure out where to find the pin, and then the phone connected to the bike, and the screen advanced beyond and seems to be working.
However the statement quoted above has me slightly concerned about reconnecting, but I see the pin at the bottom of the main (?) screen.
Since you have captured it, can you also automatically fill in the pin and send it? Perhaps you already are doing that?

I have an iphone se2024, which has a smaller screen than most, so some text is falling off the screen or overwriting other text, I will send screenshots, do you want them here or send through testflight?

I have (a couple times) received warnings on the Varg phone, water pump error, one time, and I think something else another time, Does your app "listen" for these?
And I understand it may be difficult to achieve without a bike currently having errors!

I actually have 2 MX vargs, but one of them is at the dealer now getting a new battery.
I will be in touch, if there is anything I can do to help I'm willing and eager!
Thanks for your time and effort on this, I'm looking forward to using it.

AL_V said:

I just installed on my iphone and connected to my MX.
I was trying to figure out where to find the pin, and then the phone connected to the bike, and the screen advanced beyond and seems to be working.
However the statement quoted above has me slightly concerned about reconnecting, but I see the pin at the bottom of the main (?) screen.
Since you have captured it, can you also automatically fill in the pin and send it? Perhaps you already are doing that?

I have an iphone se2024, which has a smaller screen than most, so some text is falling off the screen or overwriting other text, I will send screenshots, do you want them here or send through testflight?

I have (a couple times) received warnings on the Varg phone, water pump error, one time, and I think something else another time, Does your app "listen" for these?
And I understand it may be difficult to achieve without a bike currently having errors!

I actually have 2 MX vargs, but one of them is at the dealer now getting a new battery.
I will be in touch, if there is anything I can do to help I'm willing and eager!
Thanks for your time and effort on this, I'm looking forward to using it.

Click to expand...

Awesome! I'm glad to hear it works on the MX, I'm guessing that's only true for the latest 1.2.8 firmware but I imagine most people have updated by now. Apple provides no way to automatically provide a pin, it must be input by the user. If it fails to connect in the future you can go into the system bluetooth settings, find the VIN in the paired devices, and select "forget" on it. I guess there is either some bug with Stark's VCU or the pin honestly may be completely unused, I haven't actually tested without it.

Screenshots in either place should be fine, I guess maybe testflight may provide some extra data which is useful but I've never used it before so I can't say for sure. I imagine there are a lot of issues with text fitting, I'll need to find a better way to test different device sizes as the iOS simulator doesn't support bluetooth.

The app does listen for all faults and will display a red warning indicator on the dashboard screen if one is hit, but your also correct in saying its sort of impossible to test. I will say the Stark app itself doesn't seem to display all faults, notably while the VCU has the concept of a motor overheating fault the Stark app never uses this field to display a warning, only for things like the water pump, isolation faults, and inverter/battery overheats. You can see the list of faults and whether they are triggered in the service -> status page.

Edit: I just saw your screenshots and wow that's so much worse than I thought it would be on small devices... I'll work on a fix for that ASAP

brongle said:

Awesome! I'm glad to hear it works on the MX, I'm guessing that's only true for the latest 1.2.8 firmware but I imagine most people have updated by now. Apple provides no way to automatically provide a pin, it must be input by the user. If it fails to connect in the future you can go into the system bluetooth settings, find the VIN in the paired devices, and select "forget" on it. I guess there is either some bug with Stark's VCU or the pin honestly may be completely unused, I haven't actually tested without it.

Screenshots in either place should be fine, I guess maybe testflight may provide some extra data which is useful but I've never used it before so I can't say for sure. I imagine there are a lot of issues with text fitting, I'll need to find a better way to test different device sizes as the iOS simulator doesn't support bluetooth.

The app does listen for all faults and will display a red warning indicator on the dashboard screen if one is hit, but your also correct in saying its sort of impossible to test. I will say the Stark app itself doesn't seem to display all faults, notably while the VCU has the concept of a motor overheating fault the Stark app never uses this field to display a warning, only for things like the water pump, isolation faults, and inverter/battery overheats. You can see the list of faults and whether they are triggered in the service -> status page.

Edit: I just saw your screenshots and wow that's so much worse than I thought it would be on small devices... I'll work on a fix for that ASAP

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The very first screen was truncated on the right, but as stated, the app moved on from there quickly.
Also, I forgot to mention I am surprised how quickly your app paired with my bike even though my bike was turned off (red blinking light) when I started your app.
I didn't think BT was active when the bike is off, but it obviously is.
Do you have any other apps on the app store?

AL_V said:

The very first screen was truncated on the right, but as stated, the app moved on from there quickly.
Also, I forgot to mention I am surprised how quickly your app paired with my bike even though my bike was turned off (red blinking light) when I started your app.
I didn't think BT was active when the bike is off, but it obviously is.
Do you have any other apps on the app store?

Click to expand...

Yea I'll go through the whole app and try to make it work better on a smaller screen. Do you have your text size turned up by any chance or is that just the default?

The Bluetooth performance of the VCU is actually very good, the Stark phone itself is the limiting factor having a super old Bluetooth chip plus the app being somewhat poorly designed. The entire VCU remains running and monitoring things while the bike is in the "off" mode (which is really just more of a standby I guess).

This is the first app I've built or released myself, however I do have a background in software and at past jobs I've worked with similarly designed mobile apps.

brongle said:

Yea I'll go through the whole app and try to make it work better on a smaller screen. Do you have your text size turned up by any chance or is that just the default?

The Bluetooth performance of the VCU is actually very good, the Stark phone itself is the limiting factor having a super old Bluetooth chip plus the app being somewhat poorly designed. The entire VCU remains running and monitoring things while the bike is in the "off" mode (which is really just more of a standby I guess).

This is the first app I've built or released myself, however I do have a background in software and at past jobs I've worked with similarly designed mobile apps.

Click to expand...

I do have my text size turned up, and I just sent you a screenshot of that.
I am 65 years old, so very small print can be challenging

AL_V said:

I do have my text size turned up, and I just sent you a screenshot of that.
I am 65 years old, so very small print can be challenging

Click to expand...

Ok perfect, that'll make it easier to test with. I'll try and make sure it retains support for text scaling while being a bit more... usable!

brongle said:

Ok perfect, that'll make it easier to test with. I'll try and make sure it retains support for text scaling while being a bit more... usable!

Click to expand...

And, with the text size turned way down, it looks like all screens are no longer truncated.
I just won't be able to read anything else
Oh, and reconnecting was not a problem, it seems as though the pairing code screen stayed on until I entered the code the second time.

I'm wondering about the stats.
As I understand it, the Varg phone has to be connected to the bike and have a gps signal to track your ride.
Otherwise, hours and miles are not counted.
Do you know if that is correct and then I assume your app won't count miles and hours, or it will perhaps have a separate hours/miles tally?

BTW, it looks good on my iPad!

AL_V said:

I'm wondering about the stats.
As I understand it, the Varg phone has to be connected to the bike and have a gps signal to track your ride.
Otherwise, hours and miles are not counted.
Do you know if that is correct and then I assume your app won't count miles and hours, or it will perhaps have a separate hours/miles tally?

Click to expand...

Correct, the Stark phone only records rides and ride data when connected to the bike. On the EX the VCU has an internal odometer based off (I'm guessing) the motor encoder that is very accurate (it has no concept of hours however). This is the number I display in the UI everywhere. On the latest Stark app for the EX this is also the number they have started using everywhere (previously it was only shown on the dashboard display when the bike was in-gear) including the ride stats page. The only thing I don't know is if this number is accurate on the MX, does the one you see make sense or does it seem inaccurate?

Stark should pay you for the iPhone app just because you cut about 30% of their customer complaints that come down to "I'm an iPhone guy and that's why my bike doesn't work".


I join the queue for the Android version to be used in a backup phone.
Thanks.

brongle said:

Correct, the Stark phone only records rides and ride data when connected to the bike. On the EX the VCU has an internal odometer based off (I'm guessing) the motor encoder that is very accurate (it has no concept of hours however). This is the number I display in the UI everywhere. On the latest Stark app for the EX this is also the number they have started using everywhere (previously it was only shown on the dashboard display when the bike was in-gear) including the ride stats page. The only thing I don't know is if this number is accurate on the MX, does the one you see make sense or does it seem inaccurate?

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I assume that accuracy would be influenced by tire size and sprocket size combinations.
I’m not sure what to make of the “odo” number of 131.
Here’s the stats from the Varg phone.

AL_V said:

I assume that accuracy would be influenced by tire size and sprocket size combinations.
I’m not sure what to make of the “odo” number of 131.
Here’s the stats from the Varg phone.

View attachment 14487

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That's a lot of airtime. for every 7 miles you've been in the air for a whole minute haha.

DaveAusNor said:

That's a lot of airtime. for every 7 miles you've been in the air for a whole minute haha.

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I recently bought this bike used, and I noticed the same, I guess the previous owner was an MXer.
My other Varg has way low airtime from this old guy riding it,,,

Sounds like a lot but 1 min of airtime for 1 h of riding may not be so crazy, 2 s of airtime for every 2 min lap.
Just nuts to have this kind of stats, guess we're not used to see this kind of data.

It is necessary to add the function of changing the card with the app. It would be great to work both for reading and write