another Honda CR-e build?, nope its a Suzy!

[fmxxx666]

…more amore’ for Amorge

haha after reading your long post I feel stupid xD
I sent like 3 mails forth and back with Amorge (always gathering tons of infos for each to not waste anyones time) as I thought they are a company that only as a sidehussle deals with private annoying customers... so I was afraid of going on their nerves with more and more designes and questions.
But good to know that they are flexible in this regards.

regading the charger, dont stress too much about that, they will put a correct one suiting your battery in there.
if you open up your charger there is a knob you can twist to adjust the output voltage
But anyways so they have these "dummy" chargers lying around and adjust it for each battery they ship out.
On mine (for a 81,4V battery so the output voltage of the charger is: 92,4V) they even forgot to adjust the Fiber Laser that engraves the specs on the charger so it still says 72V 10A but output is 92,4V 10A


but you will most likely anyway buy a faster better charger later.
This one comes for free with it and its ok to start with.

Regarding the Cells I would recommend P45B or if you can afford P50B
I personally know 2 persons owning a Pack with Samsung 50s Cells and they both wish they would have chosen other cells.
One has even sold his whole bike and battery since it was impossible to ride on the Track in Summer for a decent time before the pack got too hot and shuts itself off.
And I am speaking of Germany Summer (28C / 82,4F outside tempreature) no Texas Desert Heat xD

I guess its better to have high quality cells that lough about the power you are pulling as cells that are constantly at their limits trying to serve you but at the cost of heat, cutoffs, and short overall lifespan.


my battery is capable of 585Amps at 81,4v but I am only pulling 350Amps on my highest setting currently on the controller and that is plenty of power already so the bike is beyond my physical handling limits already and I use it in mode 2 where it has 300Amps. (My controller is capable of 500Amps but that would be rediculus)
So I guess I am ok with one QS10 Plug but in general the higher the V the less you need the Amps for the same Power.
In case your controller can handle more you might also think about going higher than 72V if possible.

while we are talking about Plugs I would ask for an XT90 plug on the charging side of the battery the bigger the better.
I am surprised they even offer the XT60 as I have only see XT90´s on Amorge batterys so far

Regarding shipping:
man I was so stressed xD
Me and another user here ordered our batterys only two days apart from each other (me 2 das earlier then him).
he ordered with sea shipping and I ordered with expensive air shipping.
and guess what he recieved his battery 2 weeks earlier than me...
but that seems to have been a lucky situation like Battery arrived at the harbour and there was a ship going next day.
can happen that is stays 2 months at the harbor waiting for the right ship sometimes.
so I was of cause a little dissapointed paying like 360 bucks for shipping only to recieve it 2 weeks later than someone who paid 160 bucks for shipping.
All that on top that you get zero updates on the shipping process after you pay.
A tracking number you earlierst get once it arrives in your country not before.
Ordered mine on 15. november 2024 and got it on 13. january 2025 thats hefty for air shipping...
but yeah christmas and all that sh*t was in between.

Regarding open Discharge:
I went with open discharge but after a long thinking process.
If you are willing to take the risk it will benefit you with no BMS cut outs and no BMS heat while discharging.
But you have to setup your controller to cut off or reduce power on the low end V limits of your battery to protect it from overdischaring.
And you wanna be extra secure with a fuse between battery and controller (as near to the battery as possible) in case there is a short in the system there is no BMS that sees that and cuts the power!

oh and whatever the design is and the exact measurements
in the end the battery you will recieve will vary a bit here and there it won´t be like dead on point with the scatch you approved.
on mine it was a few CM less on one side and a few mm more on another edge all managable but unexpected.
but since you left enough room to make your own metal box you should be fine

 

[Jim Beagle]

...... as I thought they are a company that only as a sidehussle deals with private annoying customers... so I was afraid of going on their nerves with more and more designes and questions.

I was worried about the same thing, I tried to make sure that Miranda knew I appreciated her putting up with me

....regading the charger, dont stress too much about that, they will put a correct one suiting your battery in there.....but you will most likely anyway buy a faster better charger later.
This one comes for free with it and its ok to start with.

Miranda has updated my quote clarifying the correct volts on the charger, but its good to know I can buy a bigger charger someday

....Regarding the Cells I would recommend P45B or if you can afford P50B
I personally know 2 persons owning a Pack with Samsung 50s Cells and they both wish they would have chosen other cells.
One has even sold his whole bike and battery since it was impossible to ride on the Track in Summer for a decent time before the pack got too hot and shuts itself off.
And I am speaking of Germany Summer (28C / 82,4F outside tempreature) no Texas Desert Heat xD

your friends above, do you recall what size batteries (S&P) they had with the Samsung 50S cells ???

.....while we are talking about Plugs I would ask for an XT90 plug on the charging side of the battery the bigger the better.
I am surprised they even offer the XT60 as I have only see XT90´s on Amorge batterys so far

yes, I will ask them about that

.....Me and another user here ordered our batterys only two days apart from each other (me 2 das earlier then him).
he ordered with sea shipping and I ordered with expensive air shipping.
and guess what he recieved his battery 2 weeks earlier than me..

I will likely go with sea shipment, as I will need to set my bike build aside for a couple months anyway, due to family reasons

......Regarding open Discharge:, I went with open discharge but after a long thinking process.

Miranda said Amorge would not offer a warranty for "open discharge" so I am leaning towards not going with that option

.....in the end the battery you will recieve will vary a bit here and there it won´t be like dead on point with the scatch you approved.

this is why I "chickened out" on the 17P


Thank you fmx for your feedback !

 

[Jim Beagle]

From my experience with batteries and Amorge, 1.) Pay for Air shipment, that take long enough by Air. 2.) Open discharge puts less heat in the battery. It already builds heat, and the Discharge MosFets add more. The controller will shut it off at 60V or whatever you set it to be. Then keep an eye on the BMS for suspicious cell groups. The Samsung cells can put out more current than there 25A rating, but they get hotter then. 3.) Just have them confirm that it is an 84V peak charger. You are going to want a lot more charger than that for this size battery. 4.) I would choose the Molicel P45B cells. with this size pack on Single track riding, you should see 40 miles. We built a KTM with 20S16P Molicel P42A cells EM260 QS138 70H V3, and he is a good rider, he gets 40 miles. 5.) Get the 675A Peak BMS for the larger Charge side current, you are going to want at least 30-40A charging. Have them put 2 XT90 charge plugs, and stack 2 chargers on at the same time

thank you Don for this valuable feedback !
regarding #5 above, I wont ever be charging at the track, or in a hurry to get back on the road, and I am thinking a "slower" charge could be a bit more gentler on the pack.

Mirada said they could upgrade from a 400A to a 420A BMS for the same price, so you think that will be OK for my charging situation ?

 

[fmxxx666]

your friends above, do you recall what size batteries (S&P) they had with the Samsung 50S cells ???

One had 72V 60A so 20S12P if my math is correct
that’s the dude who sold everything.
The other has a 81V 55A so 22S11P

 

[fmxxx666]

Miranda said Amorge would not offer a warranty for "open discharge" so I am leaning towards not going with that option

Funny I ordered through Allen from amorge and he didn’t say a word about warranty in regards to open discharge. But anyway since you are unable like everyone else to ship a lithium ion battery back to china this „warranty“ is worth nothing anyway. I know Amorge is happy to help if for example your BMS went bad they sent you a new one but they will not install it for you. You have to do it yourself or you have to hire a professional to do it on your own cost so I cannot come up with a situation where a warrtenty from amorge would really come into play or where you would benefit from it

 

[Jim Beagle]

One had 72V 60A so 20S12P if my math is correct
that’s the dude who sold everything.
The other has a 81V 55A so 22S11P

Just curious, did their BMS have open discharge ?

 

[fmxxx666]

Both with full BMS controlled discharge.

 

[DonCox]

thank you Don for this valuable feedback !
regarding #5 above, I wont ever be charging at the track, or in a hurry to get back on the road, and I am thinking a "slower" charge could be a bit more gentler on the pack.

Mirada said they could upgrade from a 400A to a 420A BMS for the same price, so you think that will be OK for my charging situation ?

You are welcome. There are a lot of choices. I still really like the product Amorge builds. Good luck on you build.

 

[Dave Daum]

here are three of my proposals to Amorge: Original V3, Empire State and Buffalo

I dont fully grasp how much space is taken up by the BMS and other wires, and I'm also not sure how "custom" can they really build packs, but I am hoping for at least 14P

View attachment 13146

View attachment 13147

View attachment 13148

Hey Jim, I love your approach. A template makes it so easy to configure the battery layout. I built a template should anyone need it. Attached are images. Message me and I'm happy to email a full scale PDF and or DXF file that can be plotted, or brought into a CAD system. I hope this helps fellow herd members. Let me know if this is of any value???



Best,
Dave

 

[Dave Daum]

A while back I received questions about how I secure the top side of my battery. I'm running a 2 inch wide nylon strap over the top with an over-center latch. Under the nylon strap is a 2mm thick EVA foam pad. Here a couple of photos of the whole set up.

 

[Jim Beagle]

That looks good Dave!

I will be building my own box, so not exactly sure how I will "contain" the battery, but with Amorge delivery times, I think I have plenty of weeks to think about it

 

[Jim Beagle]

so yesterday I received this email and about a dozen pics from Miranda at Amorge

Hello my friend
We have created the battery, please check if it is suitable for your frame?
If it is suitable, we will ship it to you


all of the dimensions checked out, a few were actually a bit smaller, and just two weeks after I placed the order !

 

[Jim Beagle]

Do colors really matter ?

So my battery has been shipped, so I'm back looking at my wiring harness

The three speed plug connection
Harness drawing says
Pink..................Third gear
Green................GND
YellowWhite......First Gear

The throttle sheet says
Blue................Low Gear
Gray................Input
Orange...........High Gear

Point #2 at the top of the T08 throttle sheet says: The color of the corresponding wire may change. You only need to disassemble the handle when installing, and you can see the wiring at the corresponding position to be clear.

Both plugs are wired per their respective diagrams, but it looks to me like the Hi & Lo wires are backwards.

Should I just plug it in and hope the smoke stays inside ?

Or swap the wires ?

 

[DonCox]

There are so many color changes. Here are the color of the main harness. (Schematic middle) You had the wiring long Harness in your Post, and the last one I will show is a Surron type throttle wires. And if you get them wrong there is not been any damage, it just doesn't work

 

[Jim Beagle]

Thank you Don for the response

There are quite a few wire colors that dont match the schematics, just has me nervous to plug in power I guess.......

 

[Jim Beagle]

POWER ON !!!
no smoke - yay
but stuck in park - boo

I fly RC airplanes, so I have a made up a series harness for six small 1350mah battery packs (two 4s and four 3S) just trying to check all my connections.

I have labeled the wire connectors for the VOTOL pigtail and the vehicle wiring harness with unique letters. a few of the wire colors do not match the schematics, but I am hopeful the wire positions are correct

anyway, when I plug in power. the headlight, tail light and turn signals are working ( well almost work, the front turn signals only blink using the 4way flasher button, they glow solid when using only right or left button )

the DKD display lights up, but the system seems to be "stuck" in park. None of the functions for three speed switch, sport mode, nor reverse seem to be able to get it out of park

I do have a couple of plugs that are not being used
#1 on the vehicle harness Letter "V" the little white label on the harness says "Side Brake, but the schematic says "Side Brace" Brown-White and GND
could this be a safety feature to ensure the kickstand is up ? which is why I am stuck in park ?
or is this just an available signal for a rear brake light ? and it doesnt matter ?

#2 on the VOTOL harness Letter " i " (eye)
the schematic says: Contactor control signal red/yellow
this plug is not plugged into anything, what is this for ?

#3 I have both LIN and CAN connections plugged in
I dont fully understand how this works, is it one or the other ? or both ?
I did unplug one and it didnt seem to matter

#4 I am not currently plugged into my QS138 motor, maybe there is some signal needed from the Hall sensor....
do I need to be plugged into the motor to get out of park?


I am fairly clueless electrically, so maybe there is something obvious here that I cant see....

Appreciate the help !!!

 

[DonCox]

POWER ON !!!
no smoke - yay
but stuck in park - boo

I fly RC airplanes, so I have a made up a series harness for six small 1350mah battery packs (two 4s and four 3S) just trying to check all my connections.

I have labeled the wire connectors for the VOTOL pigtail and the vehicle wiring harness with unique letters. a few of the wire colors do not match the schematics, but I am hopeful the wire positions are correct

anyway, when I plug in power. the headlight, tail light and turn signals are working ( well almost work, the front turn signals only blink using the 4way flasher button, they glow solid when using only right or left button )

the DKD display lights up, but the system seems to be "stuck" in park. None of the functions for three speed switch, sport mode, nor reverse seem to be able to get it out of park

I do have a couple of plugs that are not being used
#1 on the vehicle harness Letter "V" the little white label on the harness says "Side Brake, but the schematic says "Side Brace" Brown-White and GND
could this be a safety feature to ensure the kickstand is up ? which is why I am stuck in park ?
or is this just an available signal for a rear brake light ? and it doesnt matter ?

#2 on the VOTOL harness Letter " i " (eye)
the schematic says: Contactor control signal red/yellow
this plug is not plugged into anything, what is this for ?

#3 I have both LIN and CAN connections plugged in
I dont fully understand how this works, is it one or the other ? or both ?
I did unplug one and it didnt seem to matter

#4 I am not currently plugged into my QS138 motor, maybe there is some signal needed from the Hall sensor....
do I need to be plugged into the motor to get out of park?


I am fairly clueless electrically, so maybe there is something obvious here that I cant see....

Appreciate the help !!!

View attachment 13499

View attachment 13500

View attachment 13501

View attachment 13502

View attachment 13503

View attachment 13504

There are a couple of ways to get out of Park. If you momentarily touch the 2 leads in connector G above it will take you out of Park, and if you touch it again it will go into Park.

Or if you go to the Port settings Page in the software, and at box PD1 select 1: Empty_Func instead of 17: Park_input It will now not look for the Park momentary switch. The box that has SW selected is now not functional. The makes it a momentary switch required action. Not selected requires a on/off switch action to turn it on and off. Since is is now an empty function it doesn't matter.

 

[Jim Beagle]

@DonCox

I have two words for you sir

Youda Man !

Paperclip into G

Thank you!