Honda CR-E vs. Alta Redshift

[Fog 25]

Got this clip from a friend of mine. Not that good of quality. But at least we know it’s a working bike.

Here’s another video

 

[Fog 25]

Looks like it has a Alta shock ending with #1 (No rebound)

 

[snydes]

Looks like it has a Alta shock ending with #1 (No rebound)

Haha, I was thinking the same. That thing is really bouncing around!

 

[Rix]

Looks like it has a Alta shock ending with #1 (No rebound)

That was rebounding quick, even for a C rider.

 

[Philip]

They definitely benchmarked an early MXR, including the defective rear shock!

 

[Judaslefourbe]

They definitely benchmarked an early MXR, including the defective rear shock!

More like they had the same assumption we had in the beginning (early MXR issue aside), which is to set up the suspension based on an ICE bike.

 

[Philip]

More like they had the same assumption we had in the beginning (early MXR issue aside), which is to set up the suspension based on an ICE bike.

Could you please elaborate about this? I heard Derek say that the Redshift's suspension should be setup differently because of the different power delivery, but he never said how differently exactly and why.

I have my guesses and theories, but I would like to hear the official version.

 

[Judaslefourbe]

The ICE creates momentum that affects the suspensions in a big way. An electric motor does not have that momentum, so the suspensions have to deal with a "dead weight." Back in the days, we used to call that the "dead cat bounce."

 

[Philip]

The ICE creates momentum that affects the suspensions in a big way. An electric motor does not have that momentum, so the suspensions have to deal with a "dead weight." Back in the days, we used to call that the "dead cat bounce."

Do you mean that the accelerating ICE flywheel creates a moment that loads up the rear end and calms it down, whereas an electric motor doesn't do that?

 

[Fod]

 

[Judaslefourbe]

Do you mean that the accelerating ICE flywheel creates a moment that loads up the rear end and calms it down, whereas an electric motor doesn't do that?

That's past my understanding of suspension dynamics. All I know is that it has a significant impact.

 

[Philip]

@Judaslefourbe , @Tuner -- Any insight as to why Altas tent to teeter-totter when skimming the whoops instead of flowing straight?

I have experienced this on every Alta suspension that I owned, and I've also seen it when Josh Hill beat RC. I thought he was going to get stuck in those whoops.

 

[Tuner]

@Judaslefourbe , @Tuner -- Any insight as to why Altas tent to teeter-totter when skimming the whoops instead of flowing straight?

I have experienced this on every Alta suspension that I owned, and I've also seen it when Josh Hill beat RC. I thought he was going to get stuck in those whoops.

Low and centralized mass encourages the front and rear wheels to rotate around the mass center prompting the for and aft rocking. Most off-road motorcycles are rear weight biased, where the Alta is near neutral, particularly while standing on the pegs. Lack of significant rotating motor mass also allows for more pitching as a result of rapid motor rpm deviations during limited and / or inconsistent traction.

 

[wwmotors]

I had the MXR on a cornerweight scale: Front 61 rear 60 kg!

 

[Philip]

Low and centralized mass encourages the front and rear wheels to rotate around the mass center propting the for and aft rocking. Most off-road motorcycles are rear weight biased, where the Alta is near neutral, particularly while standing on the pegs. Lack of significant rotating motor mass also allows for more pitching as a result of rapid motor rpm deviations during limited and / or inconsistent traction.

Wow, thanks, Dale! This all makes sense now. I remember test riding a RMZ450, an Husky 350, and especially a 150SX on the same day and track as my Redshift. The RM and especially the SX felt way taller and way shorter than the Alta. I felt like I was going to wheelie or go over the handlebars. But I didn't, and all these bikes skimmed the whoops and other bumps very straight.

 

[Tuner]

I had the MXR on a cornerweight scale: Front 61 rear 60 kg!

Most MX / SX motorcycles feature roughly a 60 RR / 40 FT weight bias. The long wheel base also encourages pitching though that is something that most modern single shock chassis's must also contend with. Long, tall with low centralized mass = a rocking couple.

 

[Rix]

Wow, thanks, Dale! This all makes sense now. I remember test riding a RMZ450, an Husky 350, and especially a 150SX on the same day and track as my Redshift. The RM and especially the SX felt way taller and way shorter than the Alta. I felt like I was going to wheelie or go over the handlebars. But I didn't, and all these bikes skimmed the whoops and other bumps very straight.

I coined this "The Magic Factor" as the Alta feels different to me in the woops than any other MC I have ever ridden.

 

[Judaslefourbe]

I coined this "The Magic Factor" as the Alta feels different to me in the woops than any other MC I have ever ridden.

You just need to learn to blitz them on the rear wheel... Easy!

 

[Philip]

So, perhaps, not lowering but raising the CG on the Alta would make it better for some tracks...

This is also the reason why I feel like I always have to either pull or push on the handlebars when riding an Alta.

 

[ElectricMoto]

Hmmm, Weight distribution is one thing but I do think a normal ICE (Crank, Counterweight, Shaft, piston, gearbox...) have a very different Gyroscopic physical effect than the electric motor/ reduction gearbox has). I have been involved in a project where we got a bike with too good CG (centre of gravity) and it did feel really weird to ride