2023 Honda CRF250R with QS138 70H V3 Motor and EM260S Controller

[Dave Daum]

Many thanks, Don. I'm totally new this but have been pouring over these threads (and videos) and thanks to you and the others here, I'm feeling confident enough to take this on. Given my lack of experience, I'm inclined to go with the electric and co motor kit to take advantage of the controller tune and wire harness. Likewise, building a battery is way beyond my scope of knowledge/ability, so will likely go with Amorge as you've described. A woods rider is my ultimate goal, so will prioritize distance over sustained (or top) speed.
I'll add the KTM SXF to my list, although a cursory search suggests it may be harder to find one in my price range around my area. Part of the reason I asked about Kawasaki and Suzuki is that I've been finding more availability in later model frames at good prices...possibly says something about Suzuki and Kawasaki owners being more likely to seize their bikes .
Thanks again!

After following the advice from several members of the group, I'm making great progress with my 2011 Honda CRF 250R conversion. I'm waiting for my E&C kit. During the wait, I 3D printed a mock-up motor. This allowed me to fit check the Lithium King motor mount and to design an irregular shaped battery box. The battery box will accommodate 20s12p Molicel 42A cells. Thanks Don Cox, Bob Casper, Bayo, and the others for the guidance. I'll post some photos showing my progress.

 

[Dave Daum]

 

[DonCox]

Many thanks, Don. I'm totally new this but have been pouring over these threads (and videos) and thanks to you and the others here, I'm feeling confident enough to take this on. Given my lack of experience, I'm inclined to go with the electric and co motor kit to take advantage of the controller tune and wire harness. Likewise, building a battery is way beyond my scope of knowledge/ability, so will likely go with Amorge as you've described. A woods rider is my ultimate goal, so will prioritize distance over sustained (or top) speed.
I'll add the KTM SXF to my list, although a cursory search suggests it may be harder to find one in my price range around my area. Part of the reason I asked about Kawasaki and Suzuki is that I've been finding more availability in later model frames at good prices...possibly says something about Suzuki and Kawasaki owners being more likely to seize their bikes .
Thanks again!

You should be able to find newer YZ donor bikes, I have heard that the motors like to scatter themselves a little too often, and it isn't cheap to rebuild a motor that scatters. But Suzuki and Kawasaki provide a great base to build on, I just don't have any experience with them. Amorge can build to whatever shape you want, within certain limits. The battery we use for the YZ250F and also fit tightly in the CRF450, and it was exactly 6.25" x 8.25" x 12.5", with the connectors coming out of the front top of the battery. It is 20S12P with whatever cells you want in it. $1801 shipped to my door ( shipping might be different to where you live) with the P42A Molicels, an ANT Smart BMS, and a charger.
Get whatever donor bike you want, make a mockup battery out of wood, and see what fits. You can see this battery could be longer below where it is and in front of the motor, in the third picture, but just a different shape, or you can do narrower and longer like the forth picture. The forth picture is a YZ250F 2014

 

[Dave Daum]

Hello guys,

I found a few extra millimeters for more storage. I've changed the size of the battery to give me 20s13p for 72v 58.5Ah. I'm totally stoked! Here is the final battery box size:

 

[DonCox]

Dave, I told you that Amorge can make almost any size, but there are some limitations. The width of 6.10" is maybe doable, send it off to Amorge, and they will let you know if the can and will give you a price. Usually they stack 2 rows of cells in that direction, so that is why I think why they got our batteries down to 6.25". Let them tell you.
On the BMS , if you go with open discharge, you want the BMS to handle 40-50A charge. The one they put in the KTM battery was a 220/550A 480A Peak. That has I think 50A charge
Also if you go to Molicel P45B cells, you get a slight improvement in range. These are the cells they are using in the Starks. There are also P50B cells, the give you almost 20% improvement in range, but at the best price I could find, they were almost twice the price per cell ($8.50 per cell in quantity that we need) The P42A cost $4.35 per cell in our quantity, and the P45B are $5.27 per cell.
Are you still planning on coming out this Saturday? Bob Casper is thinking to come out also.

 

[fsfs]

Dave, I told you that Amorge can make almost any size, but there are some limitations. The width of 6.10" is maybe doable, send it off to Amorge, and they will let you know if the can and will give you a price. Usually they stack 2 rows of cells in that direction, so that is why I think why they got our batteries down to 6.25". Let them tell you.
On the BMS , if you go with open discharge, you want the BMS to handle 40-50A charge. The one they put in the KTM battery was a 220/550A 480A Peak. That has I think 50A charge
Also if you go to Molicel P45B cells, you get a slight improvement in range. These are the cells they are using in the Starks. There are also P50B cells, the give you almost 20% improvement in range, but at the best price I could find, they were almost twice the price per cell ($8.50 per cell in quantity that we need) The P42A cost $4.35 per cell in our quantity, and the P45B are $5.27 per cell.
Are you still planning on coming out this Saturday? Bob Casper is thinking to come out also.

View attachment 12329

There was a guy with a very long Molicel P45B, P50B comparison on youtube. In short, the 50 is only a very slight improvement over the 45. In the real world the gains are not nearly what the data sheet reflects.

The difference in the 42A and 45B was night and day. Going to the 45B made the Varg a better bike. The biggest gain comes from the lower resistance -- voltage sag and battery heat was significantly lower with the 45Bs. The real world gain from the 42A to the 45B was more than the data sheet reflects.

If it were my bike I would go with the 45Bs, with the 50Bs not nearly worth the extra expense. Just IMO.

 

[fmxxx666]

@fsfs I know exactly the video you are talking about after watching that I also decided to go with the P45B Cells.

here is what I just Orderd at Amorge:
22S13P Open Discharge (BMS only for charging up to 50A) Metal Case

 

[Dave Daum]

I just now emailed Allen at Amorge and asked to change from 45A to 45B cells. Thanks guys.

 

[DonCox]

@fsfs I know exactly the video you are talking about after watching that I also decided to go with the P45B Cells.

here is what I just Orderd at Amorge:
22S13P Open Discharge (BMS only for charging up to 50A) Metal Case

View attachment 12330

What are the dimensions of your battery, and what bike are you putting this in?

 

[fmxxx666]

@DonCox it’s for my 2009 CRF 250

but frame should be the same from 2006-2009 CRF 250

I used also the available space inside the Gas Tank

 

[Dave Daum]

Hey Guys,
I'm looking to add a 72v to 12v buck converter. The 12v circuit would be used for running less than 50w of accessories such as a water pump, and a GPS. Any buck converter recommendations?

 

[DonCox]

Dave , here is a list of components I use for the 72-12 V converter, and wiring harness, and relay to make it all work. The problem is it won't work with the E&C wiring harness, you will need a stock Chinese harness from the controller. Give me a call if you have any questions.

 

[rmz290]

Hey Guys,
I'm looking to add a 72v to 12v buck converter. The 12v circuit would be used for running less than 50w of accessories such as a water pump, and a GPS. Any buck converter recommendations?

This was the one I used. Running a full light kit, fan and heated grips. Sealed it up and stuck it under the controller in my CRF airbox. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07B6D52TB/?tag=sce0f-20

 

[DonCox]

These worked real good since the relay is built in. And you are right to seal it up. I burnt up a couple before I water sealed it.

 

[Dave Daum]

Thank you for all the recommendations. What do you guys recommend for as a great charger? There seems to be a sea full of options. I'd love to be able to quick charge at the track. Best to all, Dave

 

[fmxxx666]

@Dave Daum not owning one of them yet but I heaviely looked into chargers recently and have a few on my list:

this here would be like the best overall I guess since you can set Volt and Amp to your liking like you could use it for slow charge 5A and could also go up to 25A for fast Charging. This is the exact Charger Electro & Co is selling but without the Fancy sticker around it and a few hundret bucks cheaper https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005....0.0.2bbd4ae4c1659p&mp=1&gatewayAdapt=glo2deu

This is most likely the Charging unit I would go for.
I am coming from a country with 240V at any socket so in the states you only have this 110v somtimes so maybe then the power you can charge with is only half.

I also looked into way stronger ones...
But I am a little feared this would be too much stress for the batteries... resulting in a shorter lifespan.
Armorge said my max Charging capabilities are 50A but they would suggest to not go higher than 20A often.

These Chargers you can get from 30A-60A:
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005...ene:pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller|query_from:


Power is 50A when connected to a 240V socket on 110V its then 25A etc.
But these chargers are fixed power so you cannot adjust it.

While ordering you can choose what type of connectors the charger should have:


I assume you are getting a slow charger with the amorge battery pack anyway so then for fast charging you can decide if you want a fixed value one or an adjustable one.

 

[DonCox]

The chargers I use are for 72V (nominal, 84V Peak 20S). You will need to get a generator for the track. Very few tracks have power, and now with all the Starks, you can't get to the outlets. They are only 120V 15A also. At that power, you can only push 84V 15A. So I bought a 50lbs 3500W 120V generator. Most of the 240V generators are big and heavy. With the 240V generator you can get 20-30-40A chargers. The method I use is a split battery and 2 120V 15A chargers on my 3500w 120V generator. The smallest quiet generator (and please get a quiet generator, I even get irritated with those noisy 240V generators at the track.) I have found is a 120V 3500W quiet generator $535, and their 80lbs 240V generator is about $1000. With this you can use the charger he is referring to above, E&C's variable voltage and current charger. E&C Lightning Charger

 

[Dave Daum]

Thank you @DonCox for all your great tips. I agree with you opinions on the noisy generators. I have a big 6kw 110v/220v MQ generator and a smaller 3500 watt 110v generator. In both cases I place a styrofoam igloo over the to reduce the ruckus!

I went ahead and ordered a charger from China. Surprisingly, it should be delivered within a week. Here is the link:

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Thanks again!