AMA and Electric Motorcycles in AMA races

[B. FRANK]

I don't even like bracket racing....head to head or forget it. that's the meaning of racing, to find out who and what is the fastest or most powerful. classes just muddy things up(except age brackets). 125's, 85's, 250's, 300's, 450's, 650's, electrics, let em all run together. find out what's best under what conditions.

 

[Johnny Depp]

Less rules is better. Settle it on the racetrack.

 

[Johnny Depp]

I don't even like bracket racing....head to head or forget it. that's the meaning of racing, to find out who and what is the fastest or most powerful. classes just muddy things up(except age brackets). 125's, 85's, 250's, 300's, 450's, 650's, electrics, let em all run together. find out what's best under what conditions.

I’m not even a big fan of age. Group riders by skill.

 

[B. FRANK]

remember when abc's wide world of sports put on an event called the super bikers where drag bikes, road racers, flat trackers, tt racers and motocrossers all showed up and raced a half dirt/ half street track. inline 4 cylinders , parallel twins, v twins, singles, 2 strokes and 4 strokes, lowered bikes, stretched bikes all out to prove that their style of machine was the best and to everyones surprise the motocross bikes, the smallest engines with the slowest top speed, kicked butt and supermoto was born. a whole new discipline and a brand new style of bike was created because different types of bikes with different types of engines all got to play together and find out who is best at what. trying something different is good, that's how progress is made, and competition is the proving ground. I think most bikers now accept that it's not what you ride it's that you ride. when will the f.i.m. and the a.m.a. realize that? let us play together and maybe something else really cool will result.

 

[Johnny Depp]

remember when abc's wide world of sports put on an event called the super bikers where drag bikes, road racers, flat trackers, tt racers and motocrossers all showed up and raced a half dirt/ half street track. inline 4 cylinders , parallel twins, v twins, singles, 2 strokes and 4 strokes, lowered bikes, stretched bikes all out to prove that their style of machine was the best and to everyones surprise the motocross bikes, the smallest engines with the slowest top speed, kicked butt and supermoto was born. a whole new discipline and a brand new style of bike was created because different types of bikes with different types of engines all got to play together and find out who is best at what. trying something different is good, that's how progress is made, and competition is the proving ground. I think most bikers now accept that it's not what you ride it's that you ride. when will the f.i.m. and the a.m.a. realize that? let us play together and maybe something else really cool will result.

This 100%. As good as Stark is, there is much more to come and be addressed in the e-bike field. Weight and range and personal tuning all remain challenges. Gas bikes will be forced to get better, maybe more displacement, the return of big 2 Strokes, Works bikes from unknown companies (Tesla), automatic transmissions etc. Nothing could be better for the fans. Let it all be settled on the track, not the boardrooms and rule books.

 

[B. FRANK]

no way I am picking on Bryan Haskell, the first varg customer, but in one of his videos he lost the hole shot to a pro rider on a gasgas ice bike and that guy just walked away from Bryan. Bryan is a damn good rider, just not a pro. this shows that the bike is not that much of an advantage if a really good rider on a varg can be beaten by another rider on an ice bike. all respect to Bryan who is a better rider than I ever was or will be, just trying to make a point that a varg is not an unfair advantage.

 

[Theo]

Surely the rider is instrumental in winning a motocross race; someone says that in F1 and other motorsports it's the vehicle that matters the most and maybe that's true, but that principle doesn't hold good with MX.

IMO discussing this topic of electric bikes to be allowed vs gas bikes is important and after all that's pretty much what we can do, but motorcyclist associations should discuss it and then do something even more important: experiment, carefully. Here in Italy they let some Vargs to be raced in a certain middle/high level championship (from what I've understood) in order to see what would have happened and by the way those Vargs and their riders disappointed with their results, but apparently the Italian Motorcycling Federation has concluded that probably those bikes can compete against gas bikes: here is an article from their official website:
article, to be translated into English
Incidentally, Vargs have been raced multiple times outside the USA, so the AMA can already rely on those experiments made by others and IMO should try and gradually introduce electric bikes into their championships.

 

[Beagle]

Well the most telling professional competitions including electrics and ICE are certainly AX UK 2024 (won by Jack Brunnel on a Varg) and France SX Tour (Thomas Do raced all 2023 season around 4-6th place in SX2 but was not officially ranked, 2024 just started with 2 Varg riders in SX1 and another 2 in SX2). They should also probably line up in Aussie SX later this year.

In France there are Vargs racing pretty much all the time in MX regional leagues (plus the aforementioned 4 riders in pro SX).

In Italy, at the regional amateur level, Stefano Cimiotti is leading Motornext Nord Ovest MX1 Sport championship on a Varg so I'll say he's doing fine
He's posting his race footage on his YouTube channel, here is his latest race

PS: Johnny I'm sorry I'm already spending too much time on MX message boards but I'm pretty sure you could create another account to share your ideas on Vital yourself

 

[Beagle]

Some highlights from TKO electric race

 

[Johnny Depp]

Some highlights from TKO electric race

Just met Tucker today at the Can Am event at our track today, fast rider and nice guy

 

[Beagle]

Some racing news

Podium for Irsuti in France SX tour SX2

Podium for Taddy at his first indoor race (2-1-5 for Taddy B against 1-5-1 for Jonny Walker on his first race as a Triumph rider)

Now that'd make things interesting to see him and Karlsson racing Endurocross and Superenduro whenever the AMA, FIM and manufacturers stop chickening out.

 

[Beagle]

Interesting to see Taddy go for the LHRB, frees his feet entirely to do whatever he needs to go over the obstacles. Karlsson uses hand brake as well, seems to be a clear advantage for enduro.
I think all SX/MX official Stark riders kept the RFRB they have always been using.

Edit: all SX/MX riders except Zaragoza who just happens to be their fastest rider.

Taddy Blazusiak on Instagram: "@stark__future @111racingcom @redbullpolska @ircmoto @sidisport_official @kythelmet @ravensportsofficial @24mx"

851 likes, 9 comments - taddyblazusiak on October 8, 2024: "@stark__future @111racingcom @redbullpolska @ircmoto @sidisport_official @kythelmet @ravensportsofficial @24mx".

www.instagram.com

 

[Beagle]

At last, great news from the FIM (who to this day have not explained the last minute change of rules from one year ago):

FIM give electric motorcycles green light in SuperEnduro

FIM rubberstamp the SuperEnduro World Championship rulebook to allow electric motorcycles to race and announce new FIM Youth SuperEnduro World Cup Youth Class.

enduro21.com

Now that electrics are allowed to race FIM Superenduro, it's just a matter of time to get them in AMA Endurocross. Once the FIM lets them in it becomes pretty hard to justify keeping them out.

 

[Johnny Depp]

The dam is breaking. Major heat on the AMA. I'm with Anton, separate classes is not the answer. Open Class FTW.

 

[Patrick Verner]

"Mike Burkeen <MBurkeen@ama-cycle.org>

At this time (including the 2025 season) electric motorcycles will be limited to electric bike only classes and will not be allowed to compete in motocross races at the same time as ICE motorcycles for safety reasons."

Looks like I'm not buying an AMA card next year. Safety reasons? WTF. Some guy with no riding experience can show up with a clapped out 1995 CR500 with broken levers and a chain about to break and they would let him race the C class with a full gate. My district is talking about an open class for e-bikes. I'm 51 years old and I'll be racing with 20 year old C riders on gas bikes. Almost all racing is AMA because they offer cheap insurance. I'm kind of mad at Stark for not bribing the AMA like the other OEMs do. It's part of the game. Once Honda releases the CR-E in 2026, they'll be magically safe to race with gas bikes.

 

[Beagle]

Electrics restricted to 48 hp and minimum 123 kg in FIM superenduro. No such restrictions for ICE obviously.

That's beyond ridiculous, the FIM and Superenduro organizers are basically assuming that the Varg would wipe out their competitors if they were not restricted.

All that before their first race, they needed one year to come up with that, incredible.

Stark Future Racing enters the SuperEnduro World Championship with Taddy Blazusiak and Eddie Karlsson

Stark Future Racing officially confirm Taddy Blazusiak and Eddie Karlsson line-up against combustion-engined competitors in the 2025 FIM SuperEnduro World Championship Prestige class but with question marks over FIM restrictions.

enduro21.com

 

[Number Six]

Restricting max HP almost makes some kind of sense , although .. is displacement restricted in Super enduro for ICE bikes ?
Is a 65 HP 450 legal to run ?

But a minimum weight of 270 LBS to be able to compete ..
Pure cowardice on the part of the FIM for essentially putting their collective thumbs on the scale.

 

[Patrick Verner]

Electrics restricted to 48 hp and minimum 123 kg in FIM superenduro. No such restrictions for ICE obviously.

That's beyond ridiculous, the FIM and Superenduro organizers are basically assuming that the Varg would wipe out their competitors if they were not restricted.

All that before their first race, they needed one year to come up with that, incredible.

Stark Future Racing enters the SuperEnduro World Championship with Taddy Blazusiak and Eddie Karlsson

Stark Future Racing officially confirm Taddy Blazusiak and Eddie Karlsson line-up against combustion-engined competitors in the 2025 FIM SuperEnduro World Championship Prestige class but with question marks over FIM restrictions.

enduro21.com

Gas bikes are so inferior, they had to make it fair some how. A 48HP Stark has more usable HP than any gas bike. I'm a 205lb dude and I keep mine at 50HP for motocross. Anything more than that is just wheelies and wheel spin.

 

[fsfs]

But a minimum weight of 270 LBS to be able to compete ..
Pure cowardice on the part of the FIM for essentially putting their collective thumbs on the scale.

That is pretty shitty on on the part of FIM. The only thing I can think of is this:


Which is 120.4kg. Put in normal tubes, lights, etc and we are at 123kg.

That is with 400 cells in the battery. Stark has been known to run 200 and 300 cell batteries. This prevents them from doing that. The numbers seem to be aimed at forcing Vargs to run 400 cell batteries.

 

[Beagle]

2 strokes up to 255cc, 4 strokes up to 455cc, no minimum weight

Here are the rules for balancing performance in FIM superenduro

2025_0 SuperEnduro Electric EOT-BOP v_18.09.2024 | FIM

www.fim-moto.com

Do not worry, they have thought of other limitations
"maximum torque limitation to be announced at a later date"
Also note that
"The FIM reserves the right to update the EOT/BOP at its discretion (and at any time) in the case of an imbalance. In case of dispute, the decision of the FIM Technical Director is final."