AMA and Electric Motorcycles in AMA races

[Beagle]

Well it looks like the AMA is not exactly ready to join Motorcycling Australia, FFM and others in letting electrics race everywhere.

They've been competing all over Europe national or local championships, plus 2 years of pro racing AX UK, SX tour, now competing in world championship (FIM Superenduro), it's apparently not enough.

Gotta say I haven't found the 2025 AMA rules yet.

 

[UKLee]

Sounds to me it is because the stark does not have the range which we know. It has less than half the 450 with a full tank range we were promised, hardly the AMA's fault.

 

[Beagle]

Sounds to me it is because the stark does not have the range which we know. It has less than half the 450 with a full tank range we were promised, hardly the AMA's fault.

Well they're actually backtracking, banning electrics from series they were racing last year which doesn't really make sense to me.

Motorcycling Australia made a point that "normal race distance, duration or times should not be altered to accommodate electric machines".
Agreed completely, it's up to the riders to decide if they want to compete, to assess if they can clear a loop or two or whatever. Or organizers could limit the participation of electrics to short courses if that's really an issue to them?

Varg riders have been racing GNCC 2h morning race at a few rounds, US Sprint Enduro series at most rounds as well, got some very decent overall results in both.

Seems a very odd reason to keep electric bikes out, especially saying that if they get their own class then it's all fine?
Hopefully if there's more than 3 e riders at GNCC, other organizers could see the benefit of adding a class. Why would they refuse entry fees?

 

[Patrick Verner]

The AMA gave the Stark a place to race and only a few people are showing up. I can't blame the AMA for not giving a crap about them. Motocross/Supercross is about 90% hardcore redneck and they don't want them. I wouldn't be surprised if Stark quits making MX bikes and focuses on woods bikes and people doing wheelies in the city. The best advancement they could make in the MX world is to get them running on diesel. Can you imagine how awesome it would be to roll coal with your dirt bike!!!11!

 

[Theo]

Motocross/Supercross is about 90% hardcore redneck and they don't want them.

I partially agree; IMO:
yes, it's true that a lot of motocrossers, possibly most of them, don't want them.
No, they are not redneck, they just follow the trend of saying that EVs are pathetic and, when you just go with the flow, it doesn't matter how well you could potentially think, because you are not thinking.
Not everybody hate them, though and one positive thing is that it seems to me that there are more people who used to hate electrics but then change their minds and are glad to have done it than those who give electrics a try and decide to go back to gas.

 

[Beagle]

The AMA gave the Stark a place to race and only a few people are showing up. I can't blame the AMA for not giving a crap about them. Motocross/Supercross is about 90% hardcore redneck and they don't want them. I wouldn't be surprised if Stark quits making MX bikes and focuses on woods bikes and people doing wheelies in the city. The best advancement they could make in the MX world is to get them running on diesel. Can you imagine how awesome it would be to roll coal with your dirt bike!!!11!

That's an interesting vid, a peak into a possible future.

First, I think that's great that the AMA did that for Arenacross, both the electric class and the clash for cash (non-point scoring race mixing electrics with ICE). But they've communicated on this maybe 2 weeks before the start of the championship so you can't reasonably expect to have too many riders show up. Currently it's more like an initiation to electrics for riders from the main pro class. It's terrific to see Hicks winning both the ICE and electrics class and lapping at very similar pace on his Yamaha and on his Stark.

Another point that really gets lost in this kind of conversation is that obviously, electrics as a spectator sports would not appeal to a huge fraction of current fans (rightfully) addicted to noise and vibrations of ICE. I love electric bikes and even for me it's weird, because it's different, it's new.
But the more interesting question (to me at least) is: could getting rid of deafening noise broaden the appeal of the sport, could it bring more families, crossover with MTB crowd is obvious, what will younger generations (more and more learning to ride on electrics) think about it? They will never miss the smell of 2T because they have not really been exposed to it, would they miss the ear shattering 4T?

In the end what the kids make of it matters most than what us old farts think of it. They get to decide what the future of the sport will be, not us.

 

[Beagle]

Another win by Zaragoza against ICE, this time in Argentina, you can read his thoughts about pros and cons of racing electrics (as a rider, not a spectator )

Jorge Zaragoza on Instagram: "P.1 @sxchampseries rd1 🔥 Tras la victoria ayer en Argentina, creo que es el momento de expresar lo que pienso sobre la polémica que genera la stark. Llevo dos años con esta moto, me siento muy a gusto, hemos hecho un g

2,926 likes, 83 comments - jorgezaragoza99 on January 19, 2025: "P.1 @sxchampseries rd1 🔥 Tras la victoria ayer en Argentina, creo que es el momento de expresar lo que pienso sobre la polémica que genera la stark. Llevo dos años con esta moto, me siento muy a gusto, hemos hecho un gran trabajo...

www.instagram.com

 

[Johnny Depp]

Well they're actually backtracking, banning electrics from series they were racing last year which doesn't really make sense to me.

Motorcycling Australia made a point that "normal race distance, duration or times should not be altered to accommodate electric machines".
Agreed completely, it's up to the riders to decide if they want to compete, to assess if they can clear a loop or two or whatever. Or organizers could limit the participation of electrics to short courses if that's really an issue to them?

Varg riders have been racing GNCC 2h morning race at a few rounds, US Sprint Enduro series at most rounds as well, got some very decent overall results in both.

Seems a very odd reason to keep electric bikes out, especially saying that if they get their own class then it's all fine?
Hopefully if there's more than 3 e riders at GNCC, other organizers could see the benefit of adding a class. Why would they refuse entry fees?

The AMA is pretending that the lack of sound is unsafe and won’t allow the gas and E together, only separate with pre approval. They are merely using their insurance availability to dictate the desires of their OEM partners. It will change when Honda is done slow walking their E bike.

 

[Beagle]

Australia gets it

Confirmed: The Stark VARG gets approval to race in Australia - GateDrop.com

Stark Future is proud to announce that the Stark VARG MX & EX have been officially approved for all* competitions in the Australian Motocross (MX) and Enduro Championships. This pivotal milestone is a leap forward, not just for Stark, but for the evolution of Australian off-road racing. Now...

gatedrop.com

Varg is legal to race anything (MX, enduro) at any level (club, state, national).

Well, except Supercross. Now I hate to be a cynic but what could be the reason here?

 

[Beagle]

Great to hear from Hicks, starting at 57 min, about racing the Stark and Yamaha in AMA Arenacross. He'd be interested to race Arenacross UK (just did Dortmund on a Yamaha) and would rather race the Stark next year if they're allowed in the main class.

MotoXpod Ep341 | Ft. Coty Schock and Michael Hicks

Tonight we have Mac-Off/FXR/ClubMX Yamaha’s Coty Schock to talk about the first two rounds of Supercross and what it will take to make a successful season. T...

www.youtube.com

 

[UKLee]

Well they're actually backtracking, banning electrics from series they were racing last year which doesn't really make sense to me.

Motorcycling Australia made a point that "normal race distance, duration or times should not be altered to accommodate electric machines".
Agreed completely, it's up to the riders to decide if they want to compete, to assess if they can clear a loop or two or whatever. Or organizers could limit the participation of electrics to short courses if that's really an issue to them?

Varg riders have been racing GNCC 2h morning race at a few rounds, US Sprint Enduro series at most rounds as well, got some very decent overall results in both.

Seems a very odd reason to keep electric bikes out, especially saying that if they get their own class then it's all fine?
Hopefully if there's more than 3 e riders at GNCC, other organizers could see the benefit of adding a class. Why would they refuse entry fees?

"Well they're actually backtracking, banning electrics from series they were racing last year which doesn't really make sense to me."

My guess is they listened to the claims stark made on range but when they saw the range was about half and they were left with out of charge starks littering the track that needed to be recovered changed there mind.

 

[Beagle]

Karlsson got 4th overall (3rd Superpole then 2nd, 6th and 5th) in FIM Superenduro round 4.

Interesting bit on Enduro21:

"note the FIM have relaxed their restrictions on the Varg slightly with each round and they again took some weight off the bikes this weekend"

FIM can decide to change balancing rules at any time and it's not directly correlated to position, points, times or anything.

Turns out they're at version 3 of the "FIM equivalence of technologies - balance of performances".

V3 is minimum weight 117 kg (stock road legal bike is 120 kg) and no restriction on power anymore while restrictions on torque are still "TBA at a later stage".

2025_3_SuperEnduro Electric EOT-BOP_27.01.2025 | FIM

 

[Beagle]

Keeping an eye on Michael Hicks laptimes in AMA Arenacross

Hicks counter, Reno edition

round 8
X (Stark) quali 28.887, M1 29.325, M2 29.543
AX (Yamaha) quali 29.122, M1 29.126, M2 29.180

round 9
X (Stark) quali 30.314, M1 30.613, M2 30.416
AX (Yamaha) quali 29.930, M1 30.465, M2 31.117

 

[Beagle]

David Herbreteau finished 12th in France MX Elite 1st round, that was a 30 min race (25 min + 2 laps). Against riders like Renaux, Febvre, Desprey.

On the other side of the Pyrenees, Eddie Karlsson finished 4th in Saturday Bassella xtreme final won by Josep Garcia.

Stark Future on Instagram: "The Varg EX in action at @bassellarace looks stunning 🐺⚡️ Watch our YouTube release for some POV riding action to get some inspiration for your coming enduro adventures! #starkfuture #starkvarg"

1,936 likes, 11 comments - stark__future on February 16, 2025: "The Varg EX in action at @bassellarace looks stunning 🐺⚡️ Watch our YouTube release for some POV riding action to get some inspiration for your coming enduro adventures! #starkfuture #starkvarg".

www.instagram.com

Rob Pinney ranked 106th overall (top 30%) in GNCC morning race completing 3 laps in 2h37min. Only 37 riders (top10%) managed to complete a 4th lap.

Next weekend we'll see Hicks competing in AX UK subbing for an injured Zaragoza on the Varg. It will be interesting to see how he feels compared to AMA AX, and if he can race with Deano, Mewse and Soub.

 

[RCard42]

That's an interesting vid, a peak into a possible future.

First, I think that's great that the AMA did that for Arenacross, both the electric class and the clash for cash (non-point scoring race mixing electrics with ICE). But they've communicated on this maybe 2 weeks before the start of the championship so you can't reasonably expect to have too many riders show up. Currently it's more like an initiation to electrics for riders from the main pro class. It's terrific to see Hicks winning both the ICE and electrics class and lapping at very similar pace on his Yamaha and on his Stark.

Another point that really gets lost in this kind of conversation is that obviously, electrics as a spectator sports would not appeal to a huge fraction of current fans (rightfully) addicted to noise and vibrations of ICE. I love electric bikes and even for me it's weird, because it's different, it's new.
But the more interesting question (to me at least) is: could getting rid of deafening noise broaden the appeal of the sport, could it bring more families, crossover with MTB crowd is obvious, what will younger generations (more and more learning to ride on electrics) think about it? They will never miss the smell of 2T because they have not really been exposed to it, would they miss the ear shattering 4T?

In the end what the kids make of it matters most than what us old farts think of it. They get to decide what the future of the sport will be, not us.

I have an idea - get Elon to mic up the next Starship launch - send recording to Anton - Anton puts some badass speakers on Varg that modulate recording volume to throttle position. All sound problems fixed and 450's now sound like turds in comparison.

 

[Beagle]

So, at GNCC round 1, Pinney rode 3 laps, 2h37min, total 36 miles of a complete mudfest.

25 hp 20% regen, battery died on him a few yards from the finish line, pushed it to finish, still good enough for top30% anyway. He rides without the phone, he was so very close to perfection in his battery management. He plans to do some battery swaps at other rounds if needed.

Hopefully he will get his Varg EX soon enough to race it in GNCC and properly test how much more range he can get out of it.

 

[RCard42]

So, at GNCC round 1, Pinney rode 3 laps, 2h37min, total 36 miles of a complete mudfest.

25 hp 20% regen, battery died on him a few yards from the finish line, pushed it to finish, still good enough for top30% anyway. He rides without the phone, he was so very close to perfection in his battery management. He plans to do some battery swaps at other rounds if needed.

Hopefully he will get his Varg EX soon enough to race it in GNCC and properly test how much more range he can get out of it.

Thanks for posting these Beagle. The algorithm shows me most but not all. You and this thread are a reference now to see if I missed anything. Good work sir.

 

[Beagle]

 

[UKLee]

So, at GNCC round 1, Pinney rode 3 laps, 2h37min, total 36 miles of a complete mudfest.

25 hp 20% regen, battery died on him a few yards from the finish line, pushed it to finish, still good enough for top30% anyway. He rides without the phone, he was so very close to perfection in his battery management. He plans to do some battery swaps at other rounds if needed.

Hopefully he will get his Varg EX soon enough to race it in GNCC and properly test how much more range he can get out of it.

Don't know how or why people ride without the phone, I undestand there is a way of counting through the 5 pre set modes but good to have a figure on the screen so you know what is going to happen when you open the throttle.
Got to be good to know what power you have left and when it might drop in to low power/limp mode and more than once we have had a flashing and loud bleeping warning saying move away from the bike risk of electrocution.
Not just for the rider but also for a marshall who might go to pick the bike up not aware the rider is down because he has just been zapped, Irresponsible in my eyes we put the bike away when it lost the phone connection for these reasons.
Think we have problems getting accepted to ride with ICE bikes now, Imagine if a marshall got electrocuted!
As well as not fitting the phone there is also the issue that the phone falls out (yes after checking double and tripple checking it is in correctly!) Which stark are not very interested in.

 

[Beagle]

Stark new color just dropped: camouflage