NEW! STARK VARG EX is here!

[OpaTsupa]

Maybe I'm more used to the maintenance schedule for motocross, but the cost estimate for your 2 stroke looks too optimistic to me.
If you do 50 h per year, can you just replace pistons for 400 h in eight years? I bought a 2001 YZ250 in 2016, so it was 15 years old. I don't know whehter the crankshaft had ever been replaced, but the conrod had radial play and the left journal had been spinning inside the bearing, so there was no interference with it and its diameter was 0.03 mm smaller than the new crankshaft I bought to replace it. Yes, your bike is much newer but crankshafts don't last forever; usually people say that every three pistons you replace the shaft. Same thing for the crankcase bearings; you'll replace them, then there are shifting forks which wear, gears from the gearbox which may not engage anymore after hundreds of hours. There are also smaller things like clutch discs, the muffler packings, and those things that break from time to time that you can't predict.

Plus, with the Stark it is possible that it will be flawless or that it won't be, while with a 2 stroke it's sure that you will need to do preventive maintenance and quite possible that you will need to do something aside the preventive maintenance and not everybody has fun trying to find the supposed air leak which is making the bike lean, for example. I personally find it crazy that, with ICE bikes, you need to be a mechanic just to be able to ride. At the beginning it was interesting and satisfying to do the maintenance, but after some years it started to be something which steals time to other stuff which has the priority, including riding itself.
BTW, in 50 hours my Stark has needed way less time and money spent on maintenance than my gas bikes and basically with it I've had fun without worries for an year. Others may have had different experiences but that's mine, so far. 8 years from now, I don't know.

On the other hand, if you are satisfied with you Beta and you have that opinion about the Stark, apparently the Stark is not for you, at least for now; you can still buy it or buy another electric motorcycle in the future, when prices will have changed (who knows how for sure?) and there will be more information about them.

Again, I apologise for moving the discussion to cost of ownership and price.
I don't think there is much sense in comparing Varg and 2T 300 in that regard.

My opinion is that people who can afford a 10K bike usually replace it in less than five years, so the long-term (~10 years) reliability isn't relevant.
Also, there is a greater probability that the bike will be destroyed in a hard crash sooner then it will wear out.

I do agree with you about the mechanical work. I too am tired of tinkering, and jetting the bike every couple of months.
On the other hand, I would need the Stark to be flawless because I can not work on it all, and closest dealer is 1000km and three borders away.

 

[mike61]

@Stark71
Hallo!
Gut geschrieben und toll, dass du einer derjenigen bist, die das Ding durchgehend ohne Fehler gefahren hat.
Ich hatte mein 6 Monate und bin damit 350km ohne Probleme gefahren.
Tolles Teil.
Allzeit gute Fahrt.

 

[Beagle]

On the other hand, I would need the Stark to be flawless because I can not work on it all, and closest dealer is 1000km and three borders away.

Intriguing, if 1000 km round trip I'll go with Montenegro?

 

[Chadx]

Never worry, business plans of companies like Stark and KTM are built around that cohort.
Downside is that they will buy any well polished turd within reason, and prices will rise and quality decline.
You can ask KTM how is that working out at present.

That is the same with any, and all, retail products globally. Manufacturers will cost cut as much, and charge as much, as the market will bear. That is why I said "within reason" regarding paying more for an eDirtbike vs ICE. I have my personal threshold on the difference I'm willing to pay as does everyone else. Mine might be more or might be less than yours and others.

Dirtbike manufactures exist to make, and maximize, profit. They are not a non-profit that exists to spread value and cheer simply for the good of society. But wouldn't that be great?! Ha.

Market price of bikes will adjust based on buyers perception of value, the cost of bringing the bike to market (R&D, cost of manufacturing, etc.), and even competition in the retail space (manufacturer having to settle for less profit per unit to stay competitive). If there is no profit possible, they close their doors.

So it always boils down to the same thing; personal opinion on value. What is a reasonable, or even a great, deal to one person might seem like a silly high price in another person's opinion. So each of us are left to vote with our wallet and seek out the product that aligns with our wants, needs, view on value, and what we can afford or simply on what we choose to spend our money.

There are items big and small that I want to buy, but even though I could afford them, I won't buy because I think they are way overpriced for what they are. For me, the Varg did not fall into that category. I think it was a good value, especially at the $9,600USD I paid for mine. But I still have that opinion at the $12,900 price point of the EX. Others don't think that is a good value and so won't buy. And the market will adjust according to supply and demand (be that prices come down, go up, or stay the same. And same for the spread between electric and ICE dirtbikes).

I don't get worked up if a company comes out with something I want, but it's priced more than I'm willing to pay. I just don't buy it and spend my money on something else where I find a better value. There will always be things available retail that are cool, I wish were cheaper, and I will never buy.

 

[OpaTsupa]

That is the same with any, and all, retail products globally. Manufacturers will cost cut as much, and charge as much, as the market will bear. That is why I said "within reason" regarding paying more for an eDirtbike vs ICE. I have my personal threshold on the difference I'm willing to pay as does everyone else. Mine might be more or might be less than yours and others.

Dirtbike manufactures exist to make, and maximize, profit. They are not a non-profit that exists to spread value and cheer simply for the good of society. But wouldn't that be great?! Ha.

Market price of bikes will adjust based on buyers perception of value, the cost of bringing the bike to market (R&D, cost of manufacturing, etc.), and even competition in the retail space (manufacturer having to settle for less profit per unit to stay competitive). If there is no profit possible, they close their doors.

So it always boils down to the same thing; personal opinion on value. What is a reasonable, or even a great, deal to one person might seem like a silly high price in another person's opinion. So each of us are left to vote with our wallet and seek out the product that aligns with our wants, needs, view on value, and what we can afford or simply on what we choose to spend our money.

There are items big and small that I want to buy, but even though I could afford them, I won't buy because I think they are way overpriced for what they are. For me, the Varg did not fall into that category. I think it was a good value, especially at the $9,600USD I paid for mine. But I still have that opinion at the $12,900 price point of the EX. Others don't think that is a good value and so won't buy. And the market will adjust according to supply and demand (be that prices come down, go up, or stay the same. And same for the spread between electric and ICE dirtbikes).

I don't get worked up if a company comes out with something I want, but it's priced more than I'm willing to pay. I just don't buy it and spend my money on something else where I find a better value. There will always be things available retail that are cool, I wish were cheaper, and I will never buy.

All valid points.

I suppose I'm a bit bitter that EV off-road market is moving in the direction that off-road bicycles took circa 10-20 years ago.
These days a decent mountain bike costs more than a small car. Process is irreversible since market is very willing to bear it, and it even became a status badge.
Irony being that there are few things as pure, humble and practical as a bicycle.

Strongly agree regarding personal threshold. I don't fret at all about 1.500$ phones when a 300$ one does all I need. Of course, that 300$ is a monthly wage for some.
When I bought my last Enduro bike in 2021. I swore that I will not pay more than 10.000$ for a similar bike ever again. Since then, prices rose ~20% without any technical development or meaningful improvements. I just do not see the value in it any longer.

With Varg I'm willing to make an allowance, and I'll likely buy it if I can get it for ~11.000$. [not impossible, just tedious]

 

[OpaTsupa]

Intriguing, if 1000 km round trip I'll go with Montenegro?

Clever.
Now guess my weight.

 

[Beagle]

Clever.
Now guess my weight.

Come on give me a clue, are you big on baklava?

Seriously I'm not convinced EV dirt bikes are going to be more expensive than ICE. 80 hp Varg MX is 1500 € more than KX450 or YZ450F, 500 € less than 450SXF. The difference with the Japanese bikes is more or less the price of an exhaust (Varg is also way cheaper then 450SXF FE). Plus whenever Yamaha or Honda enter the game they should be able to offer cheaper bikes than a European start-up.

Less maintenance can be attractive for old hands, but I think it could really open up the sport to people who have no knowledge nor desire to work and spend time on engines. It is removing a barrier of entry into dirt bikes.

 

[OpaTsupa]

Oh, you got it on the first try.

 

[Beagle]

Anton Wass on Pulp, starts at 2h22min (some weird editing cuts sometimes)

PulpMX Show 612 - Ken Roczen, Cody Webb, Wass, Nicoletti, Blankenship w/ Kris Keefer in Studio

Host: Steve Matthes & Kris KeeferGuests: Ken Roczen, Cody Webb, Anton Wass, & Ross BlankenshipEstimated Timestamps00:00 General Discussion

www.youtube.com

Some infos I got out of this:

Most dealers have sold out the EX allocation they got, first deliveries still scheduled in February for Europe and March for the US.

About Honda CR electric proto, Anton thinks they may have half the battery capacity and might be heavier, thinks this model will not go into production, production bike should be different (better).

MXGP did not contact Stark at all before setting up their 2026 MXEP class.

In markets other than US (Europe), KTM dealers were threatened and forbidden to become Stark dealers.

 

[OpaTsupa]

With first EX deliveries and reports coming soon, here's a question for those sitting on the fence:

- What feature and improvement or shortfall and disappointment will swing your decision to place an order or look elsewhere?

To put it another way;
Do you expect Stark will deliver on all their promises and that the bike will prove capable in so many different terrains and uses around the World?

 

[UKLee]

Anton Wass on Pulp, starts at 2h22min (some weird editing cuts sometimes)

PulpMX Show 612 - Ken Roczen, Cody Webb, Wass, Nicoletti, Blankenship w/ Kris Keefer in Studio

Host: Steve Matthes & Kris KeeferGuests: Ken Roczen, Cody Webb, Anton Wass, & Ross BlankenshipEstimated Timestamps00:00 General Discussion

www.youtube.com

Some infos I got out of this:

Most dealers have sold out the EX allocation they got, first deliveries still scheduled in February for Europe and March for the US.

About Honda CR electric proto, Anton thinks they may have half the battery capacity and might be heavier, thinks this model will not go into production, production bike should be different (better).

MXGP did not contact Stark at all before setting up their 2026 MXEP class.

In markets other than US (Europe), KTM dealers were threatened and forbidden to become Stark dealers.

"MXGP did not contact Stark at all before setting up their 2026 MXEP class."
We read on here stark hardly if at all spoke with the AMA about the electric mikes competing with the ICE bikes, KTM involved them from the very start with there electric kids bikes. From that I assume the same happened with MXGP so why should MXGP consult stark about the MXEP class?

The fact is Stark on the quiet have got just what they wanted, an excuse not to compete at the top level with ICE bikes, look at the numbers, 16.5 minutes on a slightly sandy track from full charge to limp mode an MXGP is 30 minutes plus 2 laps.
Would be a PR disaster to show out on track the stark will at best only do half the race before running out of battery.

 

[UKLee]

With first EX deliveries and reports coming soon, here's a question for those sitting on the fence:

- What feature and improvement or shortfall and disappointment will swing your decision to place an order or look elsewhere?

To put it another way;
Do you expect Stark will deliver on all their promises and that the bike will prove capable in so many different terrains and uses around the World?

Well first of all I would take no notice at all of the first reports because the first bikes will go to influancers and youtubers who feel the need to cuddle up to stark.

Seems stark refer to "Enduro" as what most would see as trials on an enduro bike and relitively short distances which works best with the poor range of the stark.
Many use there current ice enduro bikes for enduros that you need the full range to get to the next fuel stop and also for trail riding which again is set out to work with fuel stops. The stark will not get to the fuel stop and even if it did then what? Hope they have a spare stark charger will let you plug it in and tell all your riding mates they have to wait 2 hours.

If stark made the EX with a hot swap battery and a way of charging spare batteries off the bike and spare batteries were more affordable then yes it would be much more practical but still not as practical as the current ICE bikes.

We will see but I fear many have fell for Anton wass's B S and are expecting there stark EX to do the same job there ICE enduro bike did.

Will the EX get the adjustable powre curves etc as us current stark owners were promised over 3 years ago? I hope they do but stark had better be prepared for the backlash because I for one will be demanding it on my bike as promised.

 

[Johnny Depp]

"MXGP did not contact Stark at all before setting up their 2026 MXEP class."
We read on here stark hardly if at all spoke with the AMA about the electric mikes competing with the ICE bikes, KTM involved them from the very start with there electric kids bikes. From that I assume the same happened with MXGP so why should MXGP consult stark about the MXEP class?

The fact is Stark on the quiet have got just what they wanted, an excuse not to compete at the top level with ICE bikes, look at the numbers, 16.5 minutes on a slightly sandy track from full charge to limp mode an MXGP is 30 minutes plus 2 laps.
Would be a PR disaster to show out on track the stark will at best only do half the race before running out of battery.

99% of the world’s riders/consumers drain their bodies first.
Moto races are too long and boring anyway, hence Triple Crowns.
If they aren’t scared then let them race?

 

[FYR]

Moderators - Can we please get some "thumbs down" emojis? Seems like some of the responses here are absolutely deserving of such. I think U Kan agree that it should be at LEEast an option.

 

[UKLee]

Moderators - Can we please get some "thumbs down" emojis? Seems like some of the responses here are absolutely deserving of such. I think U Kan agree that it should be at LEEast an option.

Go for it all for that, I can hand some out to these who spend all there time doing there bikes up like a tarts handbag fitting blingy tat and this weeks trendy graphics then posting pictures of them all over the internet. Wonder if they ever actully ride them. Example NOT for racing!

This is the way the sport is going and has been for a long time now becoming a fashion show for the pansies.

99% of the world’s riders/consumers drain their bodies first.
Moto races are too long and boring anyway, hence Triple Crowns.
If they aren’t scared then let them race?

"99% of the world’s riders/consumers drain their bodies first." As the last line above! Maybe in your part of the world and would agree it is heading that way but not anything like as much as 99%, most have a go find it too hard and go back to there knitting. The word Enduro comes from Endurance endurance and still plenty of events to test a riders and bikes endurance which require 3 or 4 refueling points as can be said of trail riding.

"Moto races are too long and boring anyway" Well that is what the top level is and what we were promised the stark was capable of.

" If they aren’t scared then let them race?" Maybe the organisers are concerned at half distance there will be a load of starks crusing around in limp mode and risking getting landed on?

 

[mike61]

Almost here!
And it seems to work without clutch!

 

[Johnny Depp]

Go for it all for that, I can hand some out to these who spend all there time doing there bikes up like a tarts handbag fitting blingy tat and this weeks trendy graphics then posting pictures of them all over the internet. Wonder if they ever actully ride them. Example NOT for racing!

This is the way the sport is going and has been for a long time now becoming a fashion show for the pansies.

"99% of the world’s riders/consumers drain their bodies first." As the last line above! Maybe in your part of the world and would agree it is heading that way but not anything like as much as 99%, most have a go find it too hard and go back to there knitting. The word Enduro comes from Endurance endurance and still plenty of events to test a riders and bikes endurance which require 3 or 4 refueling points as can be said of trail riding.

"Moto races are too long and boring anyway" Well that is what the top level is and what we were promised the stark was capable of.

" If they aren’t scared then let them race?" Maybe the organisers are concerned at half distance there will be a load of starks crusing around in limp mode and risking getting landed on?

I’m guessing 1% of the world’s riders having elite pro level talent is probably high?
Again, 90% of pro races don’t have lead position changes after the first few laps. Boring, and therefore not a popular entertainment choice. You mentioned MXGP, but we are in a Enduro model thread.
Endurocross and AX have proven that E-bikes integrate well, and are competitive even with handicaps.
Lower level Vet competition has quickly proven that E-bikes are more than capable, and just as predicted making ICE bikes a handicap.
We all know the real reason why so many rules prevent heads up competition, and it’s because it makes gas bikes obsolete and has nothing to do with safety.
The same goes for 2t’s, what are they scared of?

 

[Beagle]

The fact is Stark on the quiet have got just what they wanted, an excuse not to compete at the top level with ICE bikes, look at the numbers, 16.5 minutes on a slightly sandy track from full charge to limp mode an MXGP is 30 minutes plus 2 laps.
Would be a PR disaster to show out on track the stark will at best only do half the race before running out of battery.

David Herbreteau just finished 12th in France Elite MX1 1st round. It was a 30 min race (25 min + 2 laps) against world class riders. Definitely not finished in limp mode given his laptimes.

And Rob Pinney finished top30% overall on Sunday morning GNCC race with a time of 2h37min. On the MX of course.

 

[UKLee]

David Herbreteau just finished 12th in France Elite MX1 1st round. It was a 30 min race (25 min + 2 laps) against world class riders. Definitely not finished in limp mode given his laptimes.

And Rob Pinney finished top30% overall on Sunday morning GNCC race with a time of 2h37min. On the MX of course.

Can only assume stark have fixed up this David Herbreteau with a bigger battery or better cells in his battery because

Backed up by what we are seeing with our stark. Would not be the first time a manufacturer had created a works or factory bike better that the production bike would it?

Don't they refuel /battery swap in gncc any way? must do to get 2.5 hours, more than once I would think.

I notice in that video above Bassella Extreme Race a 300 2 stroke sherco I think it is is getting away on the strights, must have the power quite low to have enough power to finish.

 

[Theo]

I notice in that video above Bassella Extreme Race a 300 2 stroke sherco I think it is is getting away on the strights, must have the power quite low to have enough power to finish.

Wass mentioned that in a certain enduro championship, probably this one, they are forced to keep the power set to 48 HP and the weight increased from a standard Varg because of the rules for electric bikes. At the beginning of the video you can see the settings: 48 HP.