Stark Future NEXT NEW UPDATES

All updates so far have been upgrades. Never removed something or made the bike worse.
How would you know, as you don't know what changed? And for me it kind of made it worse or at least cost me some money as I had to go back to my subscription to adapt my advanced power mode. I know, not all are as sensible to the power delivery as I'm, but I can feel differences.

- They don't believe in the electronic clutch. With good reason i believe (and agree).
Just watch the video about the Jarv-E with Jarvis. He basically came to the same conclusion as I did after getting used to the electric bike that there is really no clutch needed per se, BUT utilizing the capabilities of the onboard electronics to simulate clutch-like features is key. Most importantly being adjustable or at least being able to choose from a number of settings as this is an extremely individual feature. Stark is totally lacking in that regard. The Rare clutch is interesting in its own way, but if you look at it closely it severely lacks in many regards as well - there is no integration into the bike electronics other than altering the throttle signal. It doesn't even take RPM/speed into account. And you loose the LHRB as well which has become one of the key features of the Varg for me. I'm would not criticize Stark if I had the impression they would try, but currently I have the impression they chose the minimal effort/maximum revenue route.

Michael
 
How would you know, as you don't know what changed? And for me it kind of made it worse or at least cost me some money as I had to go back to my subscription to adapt my advanced power mode. I know, not all are as sensible to the power delivery as I'm, but I can feel differences.


Just watch the video about the Jarv-E with Jarvis. He basically came to the same conclusion as I did after getting used to the electric bike that there is really no clutch needed per se, BUT utilizing the capabilities of the onboard electronics to simulate clutch-like features is key. Most importantly being adjustable or at least being able to choose from a number of settings as this is an extremely individual feature. Stark is totally lacking in that regard. The Rare clutch is interesting in its own way, but if you look at it closely it severely lacks in many regards as well - there is no integration into the bike electronics other than altering the throttle signal. It doesn't even take RPM/speed into account. And you loose the LHRB as well which has become one of the key features of the Varg for me. I'm would not criticize Stark if I had the impression they would try, but currently I have the impression they chose the minimal effort/maximum revenue route.

Michael

All the talk about clutch (not to mention sacrificing LHRB for it) would disappear if Stark would do what Michael says: pay attention and correct or improve the weak points.

What I don't understand is how almost no rider seems to notice or heed this limitation to fantastic bike when a bellow-average, try-hard rider like myself finds it so often.
Today I had miserable ride cut short mostly because rear tire is 1/2 worn and I was spinning everywhere. Going slow and nursing the throttle in otherwise perfect conditions on a (almost) perfect bike is not fun.
20260419_133833.jpg
 
From what I read between the lines they already had a solid partner who was developing their software and electronics and could have probably delivered traction control a year ago, but Stark pushed them away, and now it's one guy with a laptop and a 10 people media crew to film him.
Anton and Stark reminds me more of Steve Jobs. They have talent, drive and can make a world-beating product but if every collaborator doesn't align 1000% with their messianic vision or is willing to execute all their plans, then they are not good enough. They will plough on through their errors and glorify the fixes that could have been avoided.
On the other hand they waste time and money on pretending to listen to their valued customers whom they actually scorn and ignore.

I have zero sentiment towards the makers of my car, washing machine or the kettle. I pay for their product and have modest expectations that they will work. I don't expect their CEO to answer my emails within a day or give me "support".
Stark is different so that if you read through the Varg manual or the FAQ every possible issue with the bike is followed by "please contact us". Instruction videos and manuals stopped two years ago.
They brought the deluge of customer support misery on themselves and when it started to hurt they pushed it back to the dealers who are mostly EV bicycle enthusiasts or over-large powersports dealers without care or competence for the offroad.

Ranting a little because my six months old bike won't charge to 100%. :mad:
my older Varg won't charge to 100% too and they give me an entire new bike under warranty. My new bike has a 2 year warranty again plus another year for the inconvenience

contact them and im sure they will help you
 
Maybe I am hallucinating, but I think Stark has improved the existing traction control a little bit.
 
The place to post updates/changes has gotten as a bit scattered here, but fits well to Starks policy of non-information - you really have to dig deep if want to get some useful info. I'm more with Karinshi on the 1.8.0 update on my EX and had to adapt my advanced power mode accordingly: higher power setting on the low RPM to get the initial power back and less in the mid to keep the power surge at bay. Just shows how individual people are and why I think it is a bad choice of Varg trying to decide what's best for us all ...


Michael
 
Regarding traction control there was some interesting stuff on the Alestrem live transmission on Sunday. The finishing hill was rather tricky and most guys including Lettenbichler and Bolt didn't make it up in one go (only Roman and M.Brightmore had good runs). Toby Martin did like most others pushing the last meters, but then Karlsson came. He failed the first two attempts rather clear, even lost a position, and then went back down to do some adjustments on his Varg. Next try he flew up the hill like nobody else before with quite some speed to spare at the top. I'd be more than surprised if that wasn't some form of traction control involved. Thank very much Strak Future from a NON-Alpha owner ☹️


Michael
 
I watched every clip of Vargs in the recent EnduroGP in Italy I could find for indication of TC and how they ride.
Like in the Karlson clip above it is difficult to make a clear judgment just from video. Audio gives more hints, but clear recordings are rare.

In my experience, Varg EX with a bit of run up and new and appropriate tire will climb anything despite wheel spin. If like these pros you keep the throttle open and commit hard, it will climb while spinning all the way up.
Take out all of those factors and it's a nightmare. One time I was spinning the tire so much that I had a unique smell of stone quarry in my nose.

Edit:
I can't find Karlson's failed attempts. Are they in the clip above?
 
I can't find Karlson's failed attempts. Are they in the clip above?
The video should start at 1:48:45 where he comes into the picture first attempt. There is a big difference between his attempts, something major changed before the successful one and I doubt it is just pure power.

Michael
 
Ahh yes .. I kept watching the Stark rider in the red jersey.
Karlson's climb attempts are night and day. He's very talented but not this much. :)

It confirms my belief that this bike can do anything and be so much better with more development.
 
Ahh yes .. I kept watching the Stark rider in the red jersey.
Karlson's climb attempts are night and day. He's very talented but not this much. :)

It confirms my belief that this bike can do anything and be so much better with more development.

Simply using virtual flywheel for climb helps a lot as it will not immediately "spin up" when traction is broken. However, in certain situations, the flywheel will slow you down. Particularly if you set the flywheel "heavy". A simple solution is to simply let the rider change flywheels the same way he changes maps.
 
Simply using virtual flywheel for climb helps a lot as it will not immediately "spin up" when traction is broken. However, in certain situations, the flywheel will slow you down. Particularly if you set the flywheel "heavy". A simple solution is to simply let the rider change flywheels the same way he changes maps.

you can actually get a bit of a "preview" with crawl mode:

 
How would you know, as you don't know what changed? And for me it kind of made it worse or at least cost me some money as I had to go back to my subscription to adapt my advanced power mode. I know, not all are as sensible to the power delivery as I'm, but I can feel differences.


Just watch the video about the Jarv-E with Jarvis. He basically came to the same conclusion as I did after getting used to the electric bike that there is really no clutch needed per se, BUT utilizing the capabilities of the onboard electronics to simulate clutch-like features is key. Most importantly being adjustable or at least being able to choose from a number of settings as this is an extremely individual feature. Stark is totally lacking in that regard. The Rare clutch is interesting in its own way, but if you look at it closely it severely lacks in many regards as well - there is no integration into the bike electronics other than altering the throttle signal. It doesn't even take RPM/speed into account. And you loose the LHRB as well which has become one of the key features of the Varg for me. I'm would not criticize Stark if I had the impression they would try, but currently I have the impression they chose the minimal effort/maximum revenue route.

Michael
I know because i had the Stark MX 1.0 since the beginning.
We got:
- Reverse
- Crawl mode
- More clear kW charge rate over Amps.
- We got a more controlable power curve. In the beginning it was too snappy.
- I've seen range upgraded about 15%, probably due to more relaxed mapping.
- The phone connection has got up to the point where it was 90%+ reliable instead of single digits %. Hell it even became usefull. (Still sucks 🤬 ).

The part of you having to spend money on your subscription is no concern to them. You ''shouldn't'' even have to pro features since your subscription ran out. I don't like the subscription bit either even though i would probably pay a one time sum of pretty much the same amount.

Jarvis would be able to ride a moped and make it look cool though.

Stark has made the decision they don't like a clutch on their bike. You may not like that decision, but as a brand they can choose things like that.
As you said, the LHRB is a strong feature of E bikes. If you want to add a clutch, concentional or E, you will need to remove that OR add 2 levers on one side of the handlebars.
That comes with a whole set of issues. You can ask yourself how usefull 2 levers on one side are. I've ridden the Arctic Leopard EXE 880 wich had it, and it kinda succed. I didn't saw any real need for the E clutch to exist and operating it was awkward.
On the more extreme end you could make the case for it being dangerous. Stark is not some aftermarket supplier, not even a tiny company anymore. There are roughly 1000 people a month buying such a bike. Many of whom are far less interested in riding E as the hardcore groups like this forum. People will grab a handfull of rear brake when reaching for the clutch. They will find the clutch when wanting to brake. This is where you get into lawsuit territory, that's something that can kill a brand like Stark.

Also don't forget they went from a mini start-up to a serious market share in just a few years. They don't have the huge R&D a big company like the big 4 or KTM has. Companies this size have to make compromises on every R&D resource they invest into any project. And as of now it seems like they are having a lott on their plate. Not only do you see little or bigger itterations on every few thousand bikes (i had EX number 6XX and 90XX next to one another in my garage at some point), but they are also increasing production (wich takes HUGE resourses) and developing street models.
To then have a team working on a part of your product (Clutch) that you as a company don't really believe in, could be seen as dangerous and takes up quite some resources (redesign in the software, LHRB, Clutch itself, connectors to wiring harnas etc etc) just to please a small part of your customers is a tough business case.

@fsfs
However there is a hard bit with E without a proper conventional clutch. If you let the motor do a big flywheel effect it will press onwards no matter what. Even after releasing the throttle. Maybe have a brakelight switch cutting off the flywheel effect until you hit the throttle once more.

I don't know if i would be happy so sell such a setup to regular customers. That's why i see very good reason for Stark not to hasten it.
 
@fsfs
However there is a hard bit with E without a proper conventional clutch. If you let the motor do a big flywheel effect it will press onwards no matter what. Even after releasing the throttle. Maybe have a brakelight switch cutting off the flywheel effect until you hit the throttle once more.

I don't know if i would be happy so sell such a setup to regular customers. That's why i see very good reason for Stark not to hasten it.

That is not how it works. The virtual flywheel is split into 3 flywheel -- accel and decel and impulse. Accel limits how fast it "spins up". Decel flywheel is generally not used but has a few edge cases that I will not explain at this moment. Then there is the impulse flywheel; this is to adjust/limit the forward impulse while "popping the clutch". Each of these has its own user settable value. It will not "press onwards no matter what". And you can always interrupt the forward impulse by pulling in the clutch.

Pulling in the clutch will also give you zero engine braking. This allows you to run relatively high regen and get rid of it when it is detrimental to the situation.
 
You may not like that decision, but as a brand they can choose things like that.
Basically that's what I was saying - Stark chooses their way as a company and I choose my way as a customer ...

It is one thing not to offer a feature, another thing to ask decent money for it (which is fine in certain circumstances) and yet something completely different to keep something as basic as traction control limited to a premium group paying a thousand Euros extra for a (to me, many?) useless feature like 80HP - that was just a shocking revelation for me.

I have no idea what lead to the split with the original SW developer (@fsfs if I recall correctly), but I'm pretty sure the Varg would be an even better bike now if that hadn't happened. Actually I'd be a really happy camper if they just would have implemented all the initially promised features.

Anybody knows what happened to Flux? You have to give Anton credit where credit is due - building a working bike, get production up and running and create an acceptable parts supply and support network from basically nothing is an admirable achievement. Nevertheless keeping it that way will be the next task ...

Michael
 
Vargs in difficult terrain in a recent race.
Note the sounds.
 
Simply using virtual flywheel for climb helps a lot as it will not immediately "spin up" when traction is broken. However, in certain situations, the flywheel will slow you down. Particularly if you set the flywheel "heavy". A simple solution is to simply let the rider change flywheels the same way he changes maps.
All this talk about flywheel effect makes me wonder: Is it possible to adjust the flywheel effect on my EX (1.8.0)? I cannot see any parameter for the flywheel in the app. I don't have the pro subscription.
 
All this talk about flywheel effect makes me wonder: Is it possible to adjust the flywheel effect on my EX (1.8.0)? I cannot see any parameter for the flywheel in the app. I don't have the pro subscription.
Adjustable flywheel effect and traction control have been advertised by Stark since launch. All became awfully quiet on this front then they've started taking about traction control very recently so it should be available relatively soon (if you have the 80 hp version).

AFAIK Stark have not been talking about flywheel effect for ages.

Now for sure @fsfs picked everyone's curiosity 😁
 
I'd rather invest the 1.000€ in an aftermarket firmware which has all the options without corporate limitations than in an useless Alpha upgrade ...

Michael
I'd rather put my money towards new rear tires. At least 2X more effective/efficient than any electronic aid. I'm not a tinkerer though, to each his own.
 
I'd rather put my money towards new rear tires. At least 2X more effective/efficient than any electronic aid. I'm not a tinkerer though, to each his own.
I am running an IRC JX8 rear and IRC ix09 front gummies maybe 5x better than for what I do. I tinker if I have to and the gain is the worth pain. Tires are a winner for me too.
 
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